[SallyintNorth]

I feel for novice Cade lamb feeders trying to make sense of all the conflicting advice we give them! 

The thing is, rearing Cade lambs can be a rollercoaster, depending in large part (but not exclusively) on the start they had.

Inexperienced rearers will probably find it best to:

- err on the side of caution in terms of amount of milk per feed. Overfilling the milk stomach will cause issues.  An alternative to separate feeds is an ad lib system, where the lambs will, once used to it, drink little and often, as they would if being reared on their mothers. 
- be scrupulous about hygiene, of bottles, teats, containers, milk, mixing paraphernalia and so on.  Ingesting the wrong bacteria is certainly one of the many things that can cause issues.  Many experienced rearers add a dollop of probiotic yoghurt to each feed, or to one feed a day, to help the lambs maintain the right bacteria in the milk stomach.
- offer clean hay or straw from very early on - within the first week - and introduce grass very gradually and carefully and not before week three. 
- offer very small quantities of creep feed from about 10-14 days. Remove what's not eaten twice daily and replace with fresh.  They'll pick at it at first, and probably start to tuck into it properly at around 20 days. 
- While they are learning about grass, don't feed a milk feed when their tummies are full of grass, and don't put them out onto grass when their tummies are full of milk.  Let them get used to grass on a patch of grass that is not lush and rich, and just for an hour at a time at first, and not immediately after milk nor immediately before.  Increase the time they're out gently, while their rumens develop and they establish the right balance of grass-digesting bacteria.
- once they are munching quantities of creep, take the same precautions about full of one thing when offering another as you do for grass and milk.  So no creep when tummy is full of grass or milk, no milk or grass when tummy is full of creep.
- never water milk down, nor mix it more concentrated.
- reheating milk previously mixed is fine, but only reheat once, and once mixed, keep refrigerated until needed.
- serve milk at the same temperature every time.  Cold is fine, but then always cold, and in general, very young lambs will take warm milk more readily than cold.  Once they're greedy for milk, then you can start to reduce the temperature if you want.  Hot milk is usually a bad idea; just so it doesn't feel cool on the back of your hand is plenty warm enough while feeding warm.
- don't use cows milk.  Never use bought milk unless raw.  Use real sheep's milk, or milk made from powder designed for feeding lambs, or goats milk (raw and straight from the goat.). In that order of preference.  Feed the same milk every feed, don't chop and change.
- wean when all of the following are true : they are at least 6 weeks old, they are eating at least 1/2lb creep per day each and they are happily eating grass or hay.

All of these guidelines can be broken when you know what you are doing.  But when starting out, it can help to narrow the variables as to what on earth is wrong with the little bleaters now. 

[Gunestone]

Thanks for that detailed post Sally, it's much appreciated.

[bj_cardiff]

If ZEddie  asks and pays for the vets advice then surely it should be acted upon ,  in 50+yrs  I have never fed lambs of that age more than twice per day and since the cold milk goes into  a bucket with teats  at the amount they will drink in a minute  or two then some of the larger x lambs may easily consume 750 ml plus creep and grass

That may be so but you wouldn't add 750ml for each of the lambs would you? Especially if they were bloating?

[Marches Farmer]

Vet does know they're lambs and not calves, right?

[harmony]

I hope so because the OP says he took the poorly lamb to the vet. It is also a bit confusing as to the age of theses lambs. The OP says five weeks and five days?

[shep53]

[]

That may be so but you wouldn't add 750ml for each of the lambs would you? Especially if they were bloating?

    While I would not , no were in the posts does ZEddie  or the vet talk about bloat and says the lamb had a high temp and responded to ab's .  The symptoms described read as plant poisoning of some kind to me

[shep53]

There is a condition called redgut which is caused by the stomach changing its shape. Its out of sync not sure if this is reversible.   


 

  Red gut is instant death , the only time I have had it diagnosed was fast growing lambs on  ist year  heavily fertilized  grass

[twizzel]

There is a condition called redgut which is caused by the stomach changing its shape. Its out of sync not sure if this is reversible.   


 

  Red gut is instant death , the only time I have had it diagnosed was fast growing lambs on  ist year  heavily fertilized  grass

I had a case of red gut in a pet lamb who gorged on creep and then had a guts full of milk- the day before due to be weaned. Also seen it in pet lambs being fed rolled barley.

[SallyintNorth]

Redgut is not bloat.

There's a write up on it from NADIS in Farmers Wekly

Redgut is a colloquial term, which is used to describe intestinal displacement and torsion of sheep.  The condition is characterised by sudden death and occurs most commonly when weaned lambs have been fed fast-growing lush pasture for a period of three weeks or more.  Sporadic losses of 1 – 2% can occur.

Whole article here http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/sudden-death-in-lambs.htm

Doesn't sound like it's much to do with feeding bottled milk to me.

[farmers wife]

agree Sally & Twizzel  Redgut (which I dont know whether I can confirm I've seen) can be by any massive changes in diet and can be caused by high creep with milk gorging.  Ive only read about it recently and thought it interesting about the intestines moving and unable to tolerate changes in the gut but it is more of a sudden death issue. But could have a distended belly I suppose due to gorging in some circumstances. The facts I have read have been confirmed by farmers of some who do autopsies.

Feeding milk in bottles over a week or so is too risky for bloat. I watch the lambs and they suck very little and def dont gorge.


I agree this isnt Redgut in this case.

[Old Shep]

Feeding milk in bottles over a week or so is too risky for bloat

Do you mean by bottle feeding a lamb for over a week it is too risky?  Sorry but many a thousand pet lambs have been successfully raised on a bottle per year.  Yes it used to be difficult 50 years ago when milk replacer was hard to come by,and cows milk was the only alternative, but nowadays its fine. Please don't make problems where its not necessary.