[SallyintNorth]

Well, Belinda lambed this morning, so that's the Zwartbles done.

4 tupped, had mothering issues with two of the three first timers (all well grown shearlings).  Not impressed. :thumbsdown:

I am, of course, very biased towards my Shetlands and Shetland crosses

(And will probably regret posting this now - there are still two of the fleece sheep to go  )

What is most annoying is that Belinda's had two very nice ewe lambs.  I like one especially.  Dare I hope that her Shetland genes (from her Dad, the wonderful Chad) would overcome her mother's?  Probably not, I think mothering ability is mostly inherited from the maternal side, isn't it?

[Buttermilk]

I have found my zwartbles to be good mothers but I have always lambed inside and pened up straight away once I notice they have started lambing.  The only problems I have encountered have been theives taking others lambs if not carefull.

[Sbom]

Never had any problems with mine, even first timers

[SallyintNorth]

I have found my zwartbles to be good mothers but I have always lambed inside and pened up straight away once I notice they have started lambing.  The only problems I have encountered have been theives taking others lambs if not carefull.

Belinda would probably have killed at least one of her lambs if we'd left them penned

Do you all think there's something about lambing indoors rather than outdoors (in April in a North Cornwall, and they're in a very sheltered field) that suits Zwartbles better?  Or have we just been unlucky?

[SallyintNorth]

Update:  she's improving but we're still having to go in and support the lambs to get a feed every few hours.  .  If she isn't letting them suck by suppertime, I'll have no option but to bring them all in, and just hope she loves them enough by now to not kill them

[SallyintNorth]

Update: we did have to bring them in, and we did in the end have to make the pen much smaller.  But finally, last night, they didn't need our support to feed.   After half a day in a larger pen to make sure they could now get a feed even when she could get away, they went out again this afternoon.  All well so far. 

All of which has made me ponder the following...

Do breeders who lamb indoors end up potentially producing ewes which are not suitable for outdoor lambing systems?  If Belinda had been in a lambing-pen-for-48-hours system, no one might ever have known there was an issue.  It was only because she was outside and could evade the lambs that her problem was evident.

[SallyintNorth]

Well, Belinda lambed this morning, so that's the Zwartbles done.

4 tupped, had mothering issues with two of the three first timers (all well grown shearlings).  Not impressed. :thumbsdown:

I am, of course, very biased towards my Shetlands and Shetland crosses

(And will probably regret posting this now - there are still two of the fleece sheep to go  )

Karma is a wonderful and powerful thing...

In the interests of balance, I should admit that I have had to assist one of my Shetlands this evening.  She had so much milk on this Cornish grass that her one teat was larger and lower than the lambs could recognise.  I had to get the family on their own and set the one lamb onto the big teat, and even then have had to milk some off for the freezer to get the teat down to a reasonable size.  All well now though, and I'm so pleased with Carrie putting up with all my interference.  I didn't have to pen her or constrain her while I fiddled on with her lambs, nor while I milked her.   

[sheepandponies]

I think the saying 'one swallow, a summer does not make' so perhaps unfair to conclude anything from your own first experiences?  Perhaps Z's wont suit your lambing situation; never had native sheep but think they are quite different to breeds such as Z's that are breed for milk production.  I have breed Z's in reasonable numbers for more than 12 years and still like them as a very manageable and pleasing to look at sheep.  I guess we cant all like the same thing.

[Sbom]

All of which has made me ponder the following...

Do breeders who lamb indoors end up potentially producing ewes which are not suitable for outdoor lambing systems?  If Belinda had been in a lambing-pen-for-48-hours system, no one might ever have known there was an issue.  It was only because she was outside and could evade the lambs that her problem was evident.

I believe so, yes. The same way my NZ Romneys have been bred to lamb outside with few issues. Any having problems are culled and eventually your only breeding from the absolute best at the job.

[silkwoodzwartbles]

I adore my Zwartbles but have experienced mothering up problems with them despite indoor lambing and penning ASAP after birth. 4 were first time lambers and one has lambed 3, possibly 4 times now. I wonder whether maternal qualities aren't sought after in a milk breed, noting that the lambs would be removed very early if the ewes were being milked?

Most of my ewes have now taken to their lambs and are mothering them beautifully but I have two that will go for cull or to a pet home if they don't do better next year (giving them the benefit of the doubt as they're both first timers that had twins and one had a pretty traumatic lambing as both lambs were coming together).

[shep53]

All of which has made me ponder the following...

Do breeders who lamb indoors end up potentially producing ewes which are not suitable for outdoor lambing systems?  If Belinda had been in a lambing-pen-for-48-hours system, no one might ever have known there was an issue.  It was only because she was outside and could evade the lambs that her problem was evident.

I believe so, yes. The same way my NZ Romneys have been bred to lamb outside with few issues. Any having problems are culled and eventually your only breeding from the absolute best at the job.

  OF course it would have been obvious  inside , you can soon see a ewe who is not letting  1 or more lamb suckle . The problem is breeders who select only on body type and markings   this was  a serious fault with the pedigree suffolks at the expense of mothering ability , if every animal makes big money only based on looks then there is no incentive to worry about other traits

[SallyintNorth]

I wonder whether maternal qualities aren't sought after in a milk breed, noting that the lambs would be removed very early if the ewes were being milked?

    Bloomin' obvious now you've said it.  Doh.

[SallyintNorth]

All of which has made me ponder the following...

Do breeders who lamb indoors end up potentially producing ewes which are not suitable for outdoor lambing systems?  If Belinda had been in a lambing-pen-for-48-hours system, no one might ever have known there was an issue.  It was only because she was outside and could evade the lambs that her problem was evident.

I believe so, yes. The same way my NZ Romneys have been bred to lamb outside with few issues. Any having problems are culled and eventually your only breeding from the absolute best at the job.

  OF course it would have been obvious  inside , you can soon see a ewe who is not letting  1 or more lamb suckle . The problem is breeders who select only on body type and markings   this was  a serious fault with the pedigree suffolks at the expense of mothering ability , if every animal makes big money only based on looks then there is no incentive to worry about other traits

I've lambed indoors and outdoors, hundreds thousands of ewes and lambs... and whilst I agree you'd often spot a ewe evading one or both lambs, many times you'd just see that the bedding was all a bit swirly, but the lambs were fine.  In a very restricted space, persistent lambs have a better chance of getting a suck as the mother can't get away.  So I do think indoors can mask the less severe offenders.  (Though at the outset I'd have expected Belinda to quite likely be in the category of those who are discovered because of the noise of her beating up her lambs... :/)

[Womble]

My experience is limited, but we've only had one mothering up problem with our Zs over the past three years. This was a first timer who lambed on Sunday early morning. Somehow the lamb got through the fence into the next field and I only found it by chance some hours later, having been (I think) licked off and cuddled warm by the tup  .

By Monday, she had realized it was hers but wouldn't let it suckle unless we held her still. Three days on, and she's finally got the message. Perhaps that's because milky poo is coming through and it now smells of her, or perhaps it's just because she's now used to the sensation? 

[SallyintNorth]

Interesting, Womble...  and you're lambing outdoors, by the sound of it?  Do you know if the breeder of your ewes lambs indoors or out?