[ThomasR]

Hi
So today I was dosing my ewes with vitamins as last year we had a problem at lambing and condition scored them and was shocked with how much condition they had put on. The lowest was a 3CS and they ranged all the way up to a 4.5 CS. is there anyway to remove the weight from them before lambing 8th of April without damaging the growing lambs. So far they have had a High energy lick in with them the past few months along with getting hay the past few weeks. I also removed the tup from them today and he was more  a 2 2.5 condition score so was slightly surprised the ewes were so high in comparison. I understand that the tup losses condition but didn't realised to what extent.
Two years ago we had a problem running hebrideans and zwartbles together leaving the hebrideans slightly over fed. So last year I sold the zwartbles and didn't feed the hebrideans as much which resulted in slightly under fed ewes and smaller lambs that grew very slowly, we also had ewes that went down for a week after lambing.
So this year I didn't think I was feeding much at all but yet the ewes are a bit too large, do I remove the lick or leave them with it, I was told that the Hebrideans would just use at they needed too but are they over using it, between 13 animals they go through a lick in roughly 3 weeks it is a harbro feet, fertility and worms?

[shep53]

I really wouldn't worry to much , sheep vary in condition ,mine will go from 2 up to 4.5 and with 10wks to go I'd rather have  the 4.5  than the 2 .        Perhaps  you could put the top on the bucket during the day  to reduce intake slightly and maybe just enough hay that they clean it all up .      Fit ewes that loose to much condition in the run up to lambing are the ones that can go down with TLD so be care full .  You may need to think about restricting grass when it starts to grow before lambing or large lambs may result

[crobertson]

I wouldn't worry, I'd rather the ewe carry a bit of extra weight rather than underfeeding the lamb especially with the breed you have they should be fine. I am also in the same position with my texel ewes they are only getting 1/4 of a small bale of hay per day between 8 of them (which i don't think is much) but I had a quick feel today and they feel very well conditioned. The field they are in is practically bare and they aren't being fed much but some are just natural 'do gooders' and they will still be going to ad lib hay and a lifeline bucket from tomorrow onwards to ensure the lambs receive everything they need.

[Fleecewife]

I'm amazed you have Hebs with a condition score of 4.5!  I've never heard of it, except perhaps on the lush grasslands of Cheshire.  Hebs and other Primitives store their fat around their organs, internally, so the state of their insides is worrying.  Finding that much fat on their spines and tail heads is weird to me.  Are they pure Heb, or Zwartbles crosses?
I suppose the unusually warm autumn we've had, which has had the grass growing well into December may have contributed to their being well fed.


It sounds as if they are really digging into the bucket, so I agree that access should be limited to that.


Otherwise I've no idea - I've never had fat pure Hebs.


However, Hebs have the largest pelvic size ratio to their weight of just about any breed, so they can deliver large lambs including texel and suffolk crosses, easily.

[Sbom]

Fat ewes are very prone to prolapses so watch very closely as they get nearer to lambing.
 Don't take away the energy lick though.
You have two months yet so keep them on slightly less good grass ( which I'm pretty sure hebs are fine with anyway) and as the lambs grow they should take some condition off the ewes naturally.
You said last year the heb lambs were smaller and grew slowly? Isn't that how it works with primitives anyhow?

[twizzel]

Is it a feed bucket or mineral bucket? They normally say on the side of the bucket what consumption should be per head per day. My 9 ewes have lifeline at the moment which is lastinf them about a week, they were boardering on overcondition but in the last 10 days seem to have lost weight- most are now 4-8 weeks from lambing. They are on a pretty bare field now although always seem to be grazing, ad lib hay and lifeline and today will start 100g/day nuts. I would just maintain their body condition and not feed too early for lambing but don't take the lick away especially if it's an energy lick (although it sounds a bit like the mole valley feet and fertility lick- which is not a feed or energy lick)

[Marches Farmer]

I put the lids on lick buckets overnight.  The badgers eat them if not.  Do you know a very experienced Hebridean keeper (or, even better, a show judge) that could put a hand on your ewes and confirm your scoring?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I am getting some weigh plates for the crush for weighing animals before market. You can get them off ebay at a decent price. It is something you could try to accurate measure their weight?

[ThomasR]

I'm amazed you have Hebs with a condition score of 4.5!  I've never heard of it, except perhaps on the lush grasslands of Cheshire.  Hebs and other Primitives store their fat around their organs, internally, so the state of their insides is worrying.  Finding that much fat on their spines and tail heads is weird to me.  Are they pure Heb, or Zwartbles crosses?
I suppose the unusually warm autumn we've had, which has had the grass growing well into December may have contributed to their being well fed.

Hi fleecewife thinking about it they may have been a 4 but still much larger than expected. All they haven't had any hard feed which is why I'm surprised and I'm terrified about one having a prolapse. Have you ever had a heb have a prolapse? What should I be feeding them from now until lambing, Last years lambs have had pretty much the same feed are a good conditions score or two lower than the ewes. They are a 2CS at most judging by their spines but running around happy as ever.
It has just been an odd year with the tups not being in amazing condition either around 2 as well.
I have stopped feeding the ewes hay so don't really know what to do as never had a situation where the ewes have been too large

[landroverroy]

 If you've taken the hay away, then what are they eating? In my experience sheep don't start eating hay in any amount  unless the grass is more or less gone?
 Do you have the lick positioned near the water?  That can increase consumption so if so, then move it away.

[ThomasR]

there is a small amount of grass, not much but was mainly giving them hay because they were eating it but now they are over weight.

[Fleecewife]

I'm amazed you have Hebs with a condition score of 4.5!  I've never heard of it, except perhaps on the lush grasslands of Cheshire.  Hebs and other Primitives store their fat around their organs, internally, so the state of their insides is worrying.  Finding that much fat on their spines and tail heads is weird to me.  Are they pure Heb, or Zwartbles crosses?
I suppose the unusually warm autumn we've had, which has had the grass growing well into December may have contributed to their being well fed.

Hi fleecewife thinking about it they may have been a 4 but still much larger than expected. All they haven't had any hard feed which is why I'm surprised and I'm terrified about one having a prolapse. Have you ever had a heb have a prolapse? What should I be feeding them from now until lambing, Last years lambs have had pretty much the same feed are a good conditions score or two lower than the ewes. They are a 2CS at most judging by their spines but running around happy as ever.
It has just been an odd year with the tups not being in amazing condition either around 2 as well.
I have stopped feeding the ewes hay so don't really know what to do as never had a situation where the ewes have been too large

No, in 21 years I've never had a Heb with a prolapse and I can't remember hearing of anyone else who has.
You seem to be getting a lot of conflicting advice on here, which must have your head reeling.  Mr F and I agree that you should be feeding hay, freely available - this will fill their bellies, so they'll have less reason to eat the lick like sweeties.
I'm worried that you may be worrying about nothing here, and ending up causing problems for the ewes which they would not otherwise have had.
Did you get sheep from the Bryland flock?  If so you could ask John's advice - he's a vet and obviously keeps Hebs.  I agree with Marches Farmer that you need someone more experienced in Primitives to check your scoring.

[ThomasR]

Yeah thanks I couldn't think of anybody who have had hebrideans that have prolapsed before either. Yeah we know John and Caroline so will ask him. Will continue to give them a little hay and will check again in 6 weeks when we hepivac them and if they are still in good condition I will just continue to feed them as I'm meant to in the 6 weeks running up to lambing.

[Womble]

Thomas, Could it be something to do with how they're carrying the weight?  When I first started, I was condition scoring just by feeling the top of the spine, which doesn't tell the full story. You're probably already doing this, but did you also feel along the side (and under) the short ribs, and also the bones at the base of the tail?

I just wonder if all those measurements are in agreement or not?

Also, WBF, do you have a link to the weigh plates please?  I tried searching because I'd like to get some for myself, but just came up with owl figurines! 

[waterbuffalofarmer]

Thomas, Could it be something to do with how they're carrying the weight?  When I first started, I was condition scoring just by feeling the top of the spine, which doesn't tell the full story. You're probably already doing this, but did you also feel along the side (and under) the short ribs, and also the bones at the base of the tail?

I just wonder if all those measurements are in agreement or not?

Also, WBF, do you have a link to the weigh plates please?  I tried searching because I'd like to get some for myself, but just came up with owl figurines! 

Here we are [member=2128]Womble[/member]
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262398439882?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Looking at it though would it weigh sheep? Or would it only weigh cattle?