[Marches Farmer]

Our newish neighbours have asked if we want to graze our sheep on their hay fields (for horses) over the Winter.  When I  asked their CPH number they said they didn't have one, yet they had someone else's sheep on there last Winter.  It would take the pressure off our grazing but I'm certainly not going to move my sheep on there without one.  I assume it's also illegal for a landowner to have farm livestock on the land without a CPH, even if it belongs to someone else, but can't find any references.  I don't understand their reluctance to phone up and get a CPH number.  There must be one somewhere on the system already as the land was farmed until about 15 years ago.

[farmershort]

your CPH number is valid for 5 miles (as the crow flies).. so if the crazing is not part of another holding, yours should cover it.

[Womble]

There must be one somewhere on the system already as the land was farmed until about 15 years ago.

Indeed. Can you find a land parcel reference number on the DEFRA website?  If you have that, they should be able to tell you what the CPH number is?

[DavidandCollette]

Just done this. You can register a second holding on someone elses land via APHA. will find you a phone number later. You need to give a full grid reference as well.

[Steph Hen]

your CPH number is valid for 5 miles (as the crow flies).. so if the crazing is not part of another holding, yours should cover it.

So does this (hypothetically) mean I CAN walk my goats within 5 miles of the farm without sending movement record to Defra each time? If I were in woodland or beaches?

[farmershort]

your CPH number is valid for 5 miles (as the crow flies).. so if the crazing is not part of another holding, yours should cover it.

So does this (hypothetically) mean I CAN walk my goats within 5 miles of the farm without sending movement record to Defra each time? If I were in woodland or beaches?

hmmm, that's a good question. Well, if I had a grazing agreement with a farm 5 miles away, or less, I would think nothing of shipping sheep/goats there as I saw fit. Casually walking them around woods is certainly likely to raise a few eyebrows. I suspect if you asked defra they'd want to see grazing rights documented in some way to prove you had a reason to walk the goats somewhere locally. There was a lot of drama about this around 5 years ago with the whole micro-pigs in the city malarky... I think defra took a pretty dim view then.

[Womble]

Ah, but that's because you need to get a pig walking license.

I'm not sure if the same thing exists for goats!  What if you were just taking them for a walk so they could graze on the common? 

[Steph Hen]

I think there's the same for goats - an agreed path which will not be deviated from.
Struggle to believe it's much use for disease control given that the area is mostly arable, they wouldn't come into contact with other livestock, and there are tons of wild deer that roam where ever they like.   

[farmershort]

I think there's the same for goats - an agreed path which will not be deviated from.
Struggle to believe it's much use for disease control given that the area is mostly arable, they wouldn't come into contact with other livestock, and there are tons of wild deer that roam where ever they like.   

Well, like all government dictates... it's a one size fits all. I'd hate to think that I was responsible for a disease spreading to another farmer, and that in itself should be some protection... but sadly not everyone see's outside of their own self-enfornced demands. hmmmm.

arable land, walking a goat in a regular block on a lead.... I'm not sure I'd see a massive problem there, but you're based placed t judge your own circumstances.

[pharnorth]

When I read the movements legislation I didn't really get the exception for winter grazing or why that should be different to summer grazing

On a similar vein to Marched Farmer's question, I am moving a half dozen of my sheep across the road to my neighbours field. I will probably put them in the trailer and drive them across but we may chose to stop the traffic and run them over as it is literally across the road. They have applied for a CPH number but not yet got it and I'm not clear if I would be better keeping them there on my CPH number anyway as it allows me to bring them on and off for shearing etc without invoking stand still. It is a single flock so there is not disease or quarantine issue involved.

[farmershort]

When I read the movements legislation I didn't really get the exception for winter grazing or why that should be different to summer grazing

On a similar vein to Marched Farmer's question, I am moving a half dozen of my sheep across the road to my neighbours field. I will probably put them in the trailer and drive them across but we may chose to stop the traffic and run them over as it is literally across the road. They have applied for a CPH number but not yet got it and I'm not clear if I would be better keeping them there on my CPH number anyway as it allows me to bring them on and off for shearing etc without invoking stand still. It is a single flock so there is not disease or quarantine issue involved.

My understanding is that most people in that exact situation would keep the sheep on their own CPH, thus no movement... as long as it's withing the 5 mile rule..... Once your neighbour has a CPH number, however, it's a different story I think.

[Marches Farmer]

Update - my neighbour has applied for a CPH number and been told it will take 50 days! 

[DavidandCollette]

My application for a temporary cph on someone elses land took about 3 weeks. It would have taken less time if I had given them the correct prefix to the OS refernce. Turns out they were looking for the land in North Yorkshire instead of Lincolnshire 

[Sbom]

Update - my neighbour has applied for a CPH number and been told it will take 50 days!

If he rings back and say the stock need to be moved asap they upgrade the request and sort it within 48hrs

[Womble]

Turns out they were looking for the land in North Yorkshire instead of Lincolnshire

This works both ways though. DEFRA's database has the correct latitude for our holding, but the wrong longditude. On their interactive map, we're about three miles out to sea, somewhere near North Berwick! 

My understanding is that most people in that exact situation would keep the sheep on their own CPH, thus no movement... as long as it's withing the 5 mile rule..... Once your neighbour has a CPH number, however, it's a different story I think.

So surely the answer is to move them now using your original CPH number, and then do a 'fake' movement in 50 days time, to allocate them to the new number?