[farmershort]

Hi All,

I wanted to start this thread to document our adventures in attempted self sufficiency. I have asked a few specific questions on this forum during my time here, about various self-sufficiency topics, and I often come up against the "You may as well buy it in" arguments... Whilst it's certainly easier, and perhaps even cheaper to buy things in, it's certainly not self sufficient, and it often comes with a heavy carbon/fuel/societal debt.

Our "to do" list of self-sufficient requirements is going to grow over time no doubt, but these are the things we're thinking about at the moment:

Winter sheep feed - roots? rolled/bruised oats/barley? re-seed for more nutritious hay?

Pig feed - as above, both growers and sow food

Natural gas for cooking - bio digester?

Heating & Hot water (batch-log burner already quoted, and coppice to be planted this winter)

Electricity -1st stage is to install solar PV on the roof of the new barn, compliment with turbine?

Booze - orchard to be planted whenever we can afford the trees, barley for animal feed could possibly be malted for beer? sloping 2.5 acre south-facing field could be turned over to grapes (nyetimer being the target)

Food for people - sheep, pigs, chooks, veg beds, polytunnel, some sort of ground-working help required... ransomes crawler perhaps? Storage and preservation for above also needs work.

Water - on site well.


There are a few things which are going to take a very very long time to figure out - tractor power, etc... but if we get to a point where we have minized diesel usage to a very small number of days per year, that may be as good as it gets. It should, at that point, be easy enough to map on a theorectical bio-fuel or heavy-horse solution.

I'll post updates as they come, and welcome comments/suggestions/etc

[Rosemary]

Why not start a blog to document your progress?

[Womble]

Yes, I was going to do that once, but then I couldn't work out how to crochet the computer chips  .


Self sufficiency is a broad spectrum. In one sense we're just about self sufficient in meat these days, but we realise that since we're still buying in feed etc, that's not really true at all. I'm always keen to read what others are doing though, so yes, do start a blog or whatever  .

[farmershort]

Why not start a blog to document your progress?

Hi rosemary,

What were you thinking of exactly? Is there a blog service here on tas, or do you mean a WordPress type public blog? I'm not as keen on the latter as it's totally open. I know anyone can register for a forum account, but they have to be bothered to do that before contributing or viewing pics. Clearly the forum is publicly searchable, but has a light layer of protection over the top.

The other thing is that of everyone move to blogs for content and Facebook for discussion, then forums will be no more... and that would make me sad. It's already happening with so many areas.

[Fleecewife]

I don't read blogs or do facebook or any of that stuff, but I would love to read on TAS how you get on.


I absolutely support your environmental and sustainability concerns.  Oh if only we had been able to do this 40 years ago - but then of course we had no money    We produce a lot of our food and firewood (although not all) and our whole concern is based around looking after our environment. But we still have vehicles on the road, tractors, rotavators etc, and oil fired central heating for when it's really cold - we have calculated that at our age, solar power and wind power would not pay for themselves in our projected lifetimes - and we feel the cold far more than we did when we were younger and fitter  .



May I ask how old you are farmershort, and how many of a family you have to share the work?


If this was me then I would start with some definitions, for example what you include in your self sufficiency aims - you seem to have that worked out to some extent. Then I would prioritise - yep, you seem on track there  .  I would think of a time frame (remembering that everything really does take longer than you expect. Then the time would come where you have to think what is actually possible, and what is practicable, given your personal circumstances, your land, your location, how many you are providing for, how many you have to help, how many healthy years you are likely to have ahead of you, etc etc.  When I was working I absolutely hated having to work out the philosophy in my work place, but now I think it's a good idea to formalise your personal philosophy by writing it down, then you can keep a constant check on how you're doing.
You've probably done all that already, but it's helped me by writing it down 


Looking forward to learning more.

[farmershort]

Thanks FW!

I'm currently the ripe old age of 34, and my long suffering other half is a little younger. Just the two of us at the moment, as we managed to hold off the children discussion until wed managed to buy the smallholding... I don't expect I'll get away with that for much longer though!

We've been very fortunate, and want to try and make the best start that we can at this lifestyle.

Good idea about detailing the philosophy/aims. I'll do that.

[clydesdaleclopper]

I'm currently the ripe old age of 34, and my long suffering other half is a little younger. Just the two of us at the moment, as we managed to hold off the children discussion until wed managed to buy the smallholding... I don't expect I'll get away with that for much longer

In your planning I'd allow for about 5 years of not getting much done while you have little ones. Or a not very sustainable solution - dvd players in the car parked next to where you are fencing, digging etc    we don't have any family near so have no babysitters so have had to be inventive when jobs need both of us.

[harmony]

I'm currently the ripe old age of 34, and my long suffering other half is a little younger. Just the two of us at the moment, as we managed to hold off the children discussion until wed managed to buy the smallholding... I don't expect I'll get away with that for much longer

In your planning I'd allow for about 5 years of not getting much done while you have little ones. Or a not very sustainable solution - dvd players in the car parked next to where you are fencing, digging etc    we don't have any family near so have no babysitters so have had to be inventive when jobs need both of us.

Yes, children do take up your time but I wouldn't put plans off because of them just be realistic. When my son was only a few weeks old (and I have to say I was thoroughly bored by then and can not understand why people have children and can't find time to even get dressed) the girl I employed to run my trekking centre was involved in a serious car accident. I went back to work and took my son with me. It was winter so not many treks and obviously I had to have cover when there was, but I managed everyday jobs with baby in tow just fine.  As he got older and wanted to help things naturally take longer but isn't it great that your children can also help shape your dream.


My son (who is nearly 19) is extremely practical, never whinges when it is cold or raining, understands the value of money, works hard and appreciates the countryside around him.


Surely part of the reason you want self sufficiency is to provide a better future for your children so let them be part of it.

[Foobar]

Can you feed pigs and chooks self sufficiently and still keep within the defra rules for feeding livestock??  Especially if you are going to sell surplus meat.
For the sheep you want to aim for all winter grazing.  Just takes a bit of careful management and ley choice, and use of small paddocks with rotational grazing.

[Dan]

I'll post updates as they come, and welcome comments/suggestions/etc

Excellent, look forward to hearing how things are progressing. 

If you're looking for suggestions on specific topics can I ask that you also (or rather) post them in their respective boards? For instance the question about producing your own winter sheep feed would be better posted on the Sheep board. 2 reasons for this:

1. You'll get the best possible range of responses if you post in the right board - a lot of members will miss your questions above, but will see them in the boards that cover their own areas of interest.

2. Other visitors with similar queries will find the question and answers more easily.

Best of luck. 

[pharnorth]

Are you still at the planning stage [member=7747]farmershort[/member] ?  Or have you got your acreage yet?  I think the point about writing down your philosophy or key objectives is a good one (but yes save us from those reminders of tedious corporate sessions!). Because as others have said self sufficiency is a broad spectrum, or rather a compromise if you are to engage at all with others in the UK.  For example, it is ironic that those most wanting to distance themselves from administrative guff have to deal with planners....
My key objectives in recent years has been to provide meat and vegetables, ensuring I am happy that our animals are well kept, support rare breeds, reduce reliance on energy providers. It is not all about £ for example we went for solar panels on the basis it was a good thing, and if we leave within 10 years the next people benefit. Most evenings our evening meal is mostly or entirely home produced but not overall self sufficient as fertiliser, feed stuffs been bought in. Looking forward to hearing more.

[farmershort]

ah thanks all - nice to have some input on the children side of things too.... I'm of the mindset that it will happen when it happens on that score. I don't think there's any need for me to b the driving force in that arena.

[member=24813]Foobar[/member] - it does need research, but yes I believe that if you're growing feed crops then you can feed it to the pigs and still be within the law... they just don't want anything that has been inside your house and could have meat-waste on it... hence "veg waste" is not allowed, but the key word there is waste. The worst case is that we have to become a waste handling facility - like the people who feed waste-biscuits and waste-bakery goods to pigs.

[member=1]Dan[/member] - yes certainly, although as you'll see from the OP, one of the big drivers of this thread was that I kept asking things in the forum and getting the "Just buy it in, it's easier" responses. In this sense I hope this thread is a net contribution to the forum, rather than just an attempt to collate already in-house knowledge. I will of course break out sections, if you're happy with that, and post them in the relevant section as discussion. I imagine these will be more instructional than questioning in format... more of a "hey, this is how we feed our sheep self-sufficiently" post.

[member=30154]pharnorth[/member] - I suppose I would answer "both". We moved into out 26 acres of devon about 4 months ago, and have made some serious strides in terms of infrastructure. That said, this is a lifetimes work, which is kind of the whole point... a good life. Self sufficiency CAN be a broad spectrum, but I think this is a little like the old organic agument... "well we're organic because we don't use weedkiller"... I'm certainly not going to slate anyone else's effort, as we each have our own interested and aims, but I'm certainly not going to claim our smallholding is self-sufficient if we have to keep buying in processed pellets containing soy protein which has been shipped half way around the world. That being just one example. We're also not going to be responding to grant or other financial incentives. The SFP entitlements will be sold off, once transfered, and we will implement things which we believe are right, whether or not they promise to pay for themselves financially in 10 years. I believe it's time to back away from the economics-obsessed culture of the present, and readress what's right and sustainable.

[Fleecewife]

This is getting interesting farmershort    keep it coming 

[waterbuffalofarmer]

sounds really good [member=7747]farmershort[/member]  beware of barley though with sheep as it doesn't tend to agree with them that well, especially in the run up to lambing. I will definitely keep a watchful eye on this thread it sounds very interesting. If you like could you join my reared with nature group on FB, it would be really interesting for my members to read?.....
https://www.facebook.com/groups/318908695127731/?ref=bookmarks

[farmershort]

ok, a little update on this thread following me getting slightly narked on a thread about pig food.

I've been reading a book recently that was recommended by someone on here. It's called 'Fertility Pastures'. In it, Frank Newman Turner (1913 - 1964) speaks at length about the WW2 era agronmists and their quest to convert the nations farms to a system based on protien, fat and roughage values. He explains that toward the later end of his research (50's?) It is only just becoming known that other trace elements are important. My favourite quote out of the book is about the agronimists who "[....] are obsessed with the food that goes in, and the milk that comes out, but forget about the cow in the middle" - He also points out that they forget about the human drinking it! I think that's so true of commercial farming practices today. Practices which have been adopted in spite of old farmers' experience, simply to satisfy the demands of the supermarket leviathans.

Frank N.M.'s preferred system is one where he offers his milking herd self-service sileage and kale during the winter months - fed in the field. This is backed up by herbal lays, and close attention to the sort of natural fertility that one finds in, for example, the hedge bank. He admits that his milk yield is lower than the more modern dairies around at the time, but not by a lot. You also have to factor in that his milk costs a lot less per pint to produce, and his cows have a much much longer productive lifespan.

Now this study was really just focused on the breeding and feeding of dairy cattle, but I think the same philosophy can be applied to every animal we keep. Goats gave milk & meat before pelleted feed came along, sheep gave wool and meat, pigs gave meat before even swill was a staple, chickens laid eggs before soya-blended layers pellets were a thing.

I think, on mass, we've somehow been swept along with the commercial side of the farming industry, and forgotten what it is to be a cottager. I don't know whether this is due to the "I'm going to move to a smallholding and run a cottage *industry*" Idea, or if it is simply due to the very tempting trap of trying to compete with your neighbouring farmers on productivity. Either way, I see it as a mild form of madness.