[Daisys Mum]

But it would be interesting to know if they WERE inside? Would the owner admit they were out anyway?

why though? if they were in would you decide to then chuck your birds back out? If they were out how would you feel and what would you do?

From my point of view I think it would be interesting to see how effective the measures being taken are, my birds are in and in they will stay until I am told otherwise

[Hevxxx99]

I agree. Are these restrictions or lack of following restrictions influencing the spread significantly?

I'd also be interested to know what sort of contact or fly-past the affected places had in terms of wild birds.  Are there many wild ducks in these areas for example.

[harmony]

In a news interview when the first case broke the chief vet officer apparently said" they did not expect keepers of backyard hens to lock them in but they were advised to keep feed and water undercover/inside." So I don't think it is surprising people haven't housed their stock. The first Order said to house and if not practicable keep away from wild birds. Did it say separate chickens and ducks? And what's the point if one bird gets it then they are all culled.


If this was schmallenberg it would be totally unrealistic to bring all the livestock in.


There is no guarantee that housing your birds means they wont get it.


There must be serious welfare issues in some free range units now.

[macgro7]

They still sell "free range" eggs in supermarkets...
My friend buys free range eggs from a farm every weekend and says their hens are still free ranging on the roadside!

[Eve]

They still sell "free range" eggs in supermarkets...

Perfectly legal. Only after the birds have been locked in for more than 12 weeks are they no longer considered free range birds. Hence why the order at the moment runs until 28 February.

My friend buys free range eggs from a farm every weekend and says their hens are still free ranging on the roadside!

Has your friend actually seen those hens free ranging? If so, the seller needs to be reported to the authorities instead of supported by sales.

[macgro7]

Yes he actually saw the hens walking around.

[sabrina]

I have seen adds on facebook for free range chickens for sale. Can they still be sold ?

[Dans]

Free range birds can be housed for 12 weeks under an order like the one we currently have and keep thier free range status. If it goes over 12 weeks they can't be called free range. The 28th Feb (when we can let our birds out as things currently stand) will be 12 weeks from when the order was first put in place. I am hoping that they won't extend it further because of the possible impact on the industry.

Dans

[ColinS]

I agree. Are these restrictions or lack of following restrictions influencing the spread significantly?

I'd also be interested to know what sort of contact or fly-past the affected places had in terms of wild birds.  Are there many wild ducks in these areas for example.

As far as the spread through the wild birds is concerned I think we can, at best, have only a marginal effect. If you add up the number of wild birds in the known vulnerable species - swans, geese, ducks, gulls and birds of prey you come up with a figure of 3.5 million such birds in the UK during the winter of which, for example 450,000 Wigeon (which seem to be particularly vulnerable) have migrated from Russia, Scandinavia, and Iceland. To put that 3.5 million into context that would be one bird every 250 metres (or about 20 seconds flying time) over the whole country if they were uniformly distributed.

Interestingly, it seems the UN FAO are totally schizophrenic about the role of wild birds in the spread of the disease. Here, in November, on a FAO web page:-

http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/programmes/en/empres/news_031116b.html

They say  “The role of wild birds in the long distance movement of these viruses is now incontrovertible. ”

While in December, the FAO, this time as part of the “Scientific Task Force on Avian Influenza and Wild Birds ”  here:-

http://www.cms.int/sites/default/files/Scientific%20Task%20Force%20on%20Avian%20Influenza%20and%20Wild%20Birds%20H5N8%20HPAI_December%202016_FINAL.pdf

say “The specific role of wild birds particularly in the long-distance transmission of the virus, if existent, remains unclear. ”

So that's cleared that up hasn't it?

[lord flynn]

according to the jungle grapevine that is Facebook, and a screen grab of another post, the birds in Settle were not housed. The screen grab could be faked but the poster reckons APHA told them they were still free ranging, culled immediately and that the owners are facing legal action. I guess if anyone cares enough, they could phone APHA tomorrow and ask.

[ColinS]

the owners are facing legal action.

Time will tell but my guess, for several reasons, is not. Free-range is the acceptable face of poultry farming and with this:-

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/apr/03/birdflu.food

as a contrasting back-story, it would be a gift to the tabloids on a slow news week - “Poor free-range farmer prosecuted because his flock was given bird flu by wild duck but BM got paid 600 grand of tax-payers money for bringing virus in by the truck-load” or some such rubbish.

And then there is the wiggle-room in the regulations:-

“... Any person in charge of poultry... must take all appropriate and practicable steps to ensure... poultry are housed or otherwise kept separate from wild birds. “

Plenty enough for a half-decent barrister methinks - “M'lud,  I understand m'client, lacking a place to house his free-range birds erected numerous scare-crows that, unfortunately, blew away in the recent gales...” 

[CarolineR]

DEFRA factsheet, hope this helps!

Just been discussing a possible bird flu webinar, the "bird flu information please" thread.

Opinions? would you be interested?

Caroline

[Hevxxx99]

If the owners are fined/imprisoned, what message does that send to other poultry keepers who suspect their birds may be infected? 
Probably,
"keep schtum."!

[doganjo]

Just saw this link on twitter, possibly old informatuion though
https://twitter.com/DefraGovUK/status/817472067125657600

[in the hills]

Not on DEFRAs page yet but hearing that case confirmed at Abbotsbury swannery, with 9 dead swans testing positive.

Anyone heard anything of this?