[Womble]

Apologies for the thread title, but let's face it, you still clicked on it, didn't you? 

To cut a long story short, I know that putting sheep onto long, wet grass can cause them to become a little er, loose  , but should this sort itself out after a time, or is it normal to continue for several weeks?

The vet did an FEC which came back clear.

Thanks!

[shep53]

IT can do,all sheep are different  .   An individual fec ?     You could ask your vet for a binder or  give it hay  .       No cobolt deficiency ??

[Womble]

Well, I did individual FECs, and the vet did a pooled one. None of these showed up anything interesting.


The thing is, our tup lambs were in this particular field, and showed varying degrees of looseness. They've now gone in the freezer, so I let the ewe lambs into that field.... and they've now started squitting too.


Cobalt deficiency is certainly a thought - the worst ones did look like this photo in the NADIS guidance:





I have some endospec in stock, which contains cobalt ("albendazole 25 mg, selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.27mg, cobalt (as cobalt sulphate) 0.624mg per mL"). Is that worth a try do you think? I'll also put out some hay - there's no reason not to!

[shep53]

 The cobolt in the wormer is only a small amount , you can buy co ,se,b12  ready mixed at your local supplier and you will need to drench every 2-3wks if you are deficient  , would be better to have your vet take bloods and find if you have  any deficiency before you drench , its been a bad year for cobolt .     I think if you want them to eat hay you will have to bring them inside at least over night or they won't eat it if they have lots of grass            Natural stockcare    have 250ml  containers

[waterbuffalofarmer]

It might be worth doing a soil test in case there is something in the pasture which is doing it?

[Womble]

OK, I'll speak to the vet about blood testing, and will also talk to my neighbours to see if they have any issues with cobalt deficiency.


Incidentally WBF, we had a soil sample taken from that field last year - here are the results:





Obviously that's a soil sample rather than a forage analysis though, and it didn't look for things like cobalt and selenium either.


ETA - this link gives quite a good summary on trace elements and deficiencies. Here's what it says about cobalt:

Cobalt Cobalt (Co) is a constituent of Vitamin B12 and it is a deficiency of this vitamin which can cause problems. Deficiency of vitamin B12 leads to a lack of appetite and poor looking sheep. It is most commonly seen in growing lambs where it can easily be confused with worms. To complicate matters, high worm burdens can actually impair absorption of vitamin B12 from the rumen, making the disease worse (sometimes referred to as ‘pine’). Lambs severely affected with vitamin B12 deficiency will become anaemic and can die. In adult sheep cobalt deficiency can be responsible for infertility or the birth of weak lambs. Soils of extremely low (<5) or high (>6.5) pH or high iron (Fe) or manganese (Mn) content can lower the available cobalt because it becomes ‘fixed’ in non-available forms.

Cobalt deficiency can be diagnosed by blood or liver samples but neither is 100% reliable. Response to therapy is the best way of diagnosing the disease. The ability of sheep to store vitamin B12 is not very good. Therefore, continuous methods are needed to supplement it. When a group of sheep are found to be cobalt deficient there are several options for treatment and prevention of further problems: a. Intramuscular or subcutaneous injections work well initially but large doses are needed to make a difference in the long term. b. Boluses can be given that release cobalt slowly. It has been found that giving these slow release boluses to ewes can improve the B12 status of her lambs after weaning. However, when buying boluses it is advisable to check the label as they may also contain trace elements that you do not want to supplement with. c. Drenching. As with boluses it is worth checking the label when buying these to make sure exactly which trace elements they contain. Certain wormers will include cobalt and other trace elements as an additional benefit. However, it is a good idea to check how much they actually contain – if you have lambs which are deficient in cobalt they will need 1mg per kg of cobalt per month. The amount present in the wormer may not be enough. d. Adding it to pasture in a spray or included in fertilizer at the time of manufacture. Cobalt should not be added too soon after liming though as the alkaline pH will decrease its availability. Check the Fe and Mn status of your soil before applying cobalt as it may be expensive and could be wasted if high Fe or Mn levels meant availability was decreased.

[Anke]

Combivit injections ? - quick and easy and don't cause any harm. Or I would drench them with a good mineral/vit drench.

Plus definitely offer hay - can you bring them inside o/night, so they stuff themselves with hay in the morning before going out?

[Marches Farmer]

Is it a new ley or ancient meadow?  I find this happens sometimes to my sheep grazing on a neighbour's newish ley but very rarely to those on our ancient meadow, with many deep-rooted wild flowers and a wide range of native grasses.  My neighbour kept sheep for 30 years and used to does her sheep with arrowroot to stop them scouring.  Never tried it on mine.

[Foobar]

Don't test your soil, test your grass (forage analysis).  That will give you a better idea of what the plants are actually taking up from the soil.


I can recommend JG Animal Health, but plenty of other places do forage analysis too incl the likes of Mole Valley Farmers etc.

[Womble]

Thanks everybody. All our fields have been the same grass for at least 20 years, and have never been treated in any way.


Does it matter what time of year it is for getting a forage analysis done?

[Foobar]

Best to do when the grass is growing I guess - but ring and ask the providers and they will be able to best advise.