[ThomasR]

Hi guys
 recently my lambs have started scouring again and we have had FEC done and there is a very low count of worm eggs and they say there is nothing wrong with them. Is it just too much grass? My ewes and tups are starting to scour and I want to stop it as soon as possible, does anybody know why they could be scouring and how do I stop it?

[fsmnutter]

Have they checked for fluke and coccidia? If both negative it may just be rich grass coming through, and you could try buffer feeding with hay or good straw. You may need to bring them into a small area or inside either overnight or for a while until they've dried up in order to get them to eat dry forage before turning into grassy field.

[ThomasR]

Thanks they don't have coccidia as we gave them something for that after lambing and then vet said it was clear last month after an FEC. I think it must just be the rich grass.

[SallyintNorth]

You do know that a routine FEC will not see fluke, don't you.  And that fluke can cause scouring,

[ThomasR]

ok thanks sally, no my vet didn't mention that, does endospec cover fluke?

[SallyintNorth]

You'd need to check with the vet.  And also, be aware that, so I understand, faecal egg counts for fluke are not 100% accurate - so it could still be fluke, even if the count is low.

[member=25651]Dans[/member] might be able to explain more - this is her area of expertise.  Or any of our resident vets

[Dans]

On my phone so excuse typos.

Fluke isn't picked up on a regular fec. They use salts to float eggs and fluke eggs don't float very well, they also tend to collapse with the osmotic pressure which makes them hard to see. If you do get fluke eggs in a regular fec you probably have a high burden.

The fluke fec is a sedimentation. It isn't 100% sensitive (I.e it may not detected eggs even if the fluke are there) as young fluke don't lay eggs and adults can shed eggs sporadically. However I'd be very surprised if you had a decent burden of adult fluke in your animal and still got a negative fluke eggs count. And if you only have a low burden of adults its unlikely to be affecting.

A high burden of young fluke would be causing your animals a lot of bother. You'd be seeing anaemia (check the eyelids), weightloss and death. This is a really good page about fluke: http://www.scops.org.uk/endoparasites-liver-fluke.html

Hope that helps some.

Dans

[ThomasR]

Thanks, I will be getting a few samples into the vet tomorrow to see what is going on. One of my tups has started to scour (not bad but I gave him a dose of endospec today anyway along with 3 other lambs. I have one of the 5 tup lambs not affected in the slightest, 1 slightly effected and the other 3 full on scour and it has been the same story with ewe lambs and ewes. Bloody nightmare this year but next year I won't to be on top of it early and not see any scour all year.

[SallyintNorth]

Ok, I didn't realise endospec was the meds you were using.  I've looked it's up now.  It says it's effective against adult fluke and is also ovicidal, so will kill eggs.  But not the larval stages, I guess, and I think that's the stage that does the damage?

As with other albendazole products, the dose you use for worms won't affect fluke, you have to use the higher dose rate - one and a half times as much.  And it's only for adult fluke, as above.

[ThomasR]

Ok thanks, will need to see what it is tomorrow as it is now really pi**ing me off now. To be honest I'm sick of it. I have done exactly what i've been told to do and what I did last year and I had no problems last year. I have the tup entered for a show as well on the 24th which is not really a priority but I would like him to be there and looking his best.

[fsmnutter]

Unfortunately that is the problem with worms and fluke, the risks/important parasites etc all vary dramatically with weather conditions.
Ideal way to tackle it would be speaking to your vet every spring and coming up with a plan of testing and treatments based on what stock you have coming in and going out, your fields - wet/dry, what stock they had last year - lambs/ewes/tups, and the weather wet/dry, warm/cold winter/spring, and then create a plan. All of this can change from year to year, so treating with the same thing at the same time isn't necessarily the right answer.
Sometimes as a vet, I wish worms/parasites were more straightforward as it would be nice to think everyone could get it right every year.

In terms of fluke, at this time of the year, clinical disease is usually due to high numbers of larvae. Treating sheep now with something that kills adults (eg. Endospec), is fine, as it reduces the adult fluke burden laying eggs that will be hatching on the fields in a couple of months or so, but if you have lots of larvae infecting animals now, they could be showing illness or even dying and the endospec will not help, nor will you always detect eggs on faecal samples as there may not be many adults in the sheep laying eggs into the faeces. Later in the year, (winter/early spring) is when large burdens of adult fluke can cause chronic liver damage and illness with highly positive fluke egg counts.

[ThomasR]

OK thank you will see tomor row and if they don't pick up anything I will ask for something for fluke anyway as they can't just be scouring for the fun of it. What would you advise to treat the younger stages of fluke? 

[Anke]

OK thank you will see tomor row and if they don't pick up anything I will ask for something for fluke anyway as they can't just be scouring for the fun of it. What would you advise to treat the younger stages of fluke?

Fasinex - kills all three stages of fluke.

[fsmnutter]

Triclabendazole (brand name fasinex among others) is the only one that kills all the youngest fluke but there are reports of resistance developing so it's best used as per the guidelines on scops - in autumn to treat acute disease, not all year round. Then the rest of the year using other flukicides that kill adults when recommended by your vet for local conditions and your farm.
Hope that helps.

[ThomasR]

Hi guys, so the vet said they are perfectly fine and they are just scoring when the grass gets wet, basically there is to much good grass for hebrideans to cope with it considering that they were bredoing and have evole to live of next to nothing( or so the vet says). Is there any way I can dry them up apart from move them ton worse grazing as I have my ewes on one field and the lambs on the other. The egg Clint was around 100 per gram and they say they wouldn't advise worming them until it is upto 250 eggs per gram.