[Sherbatious border]

Hi all,I posted in Land Management but then realised my post was about two topics really (sorry, over excited at finding this fascinating forum) partly about what we'll do with it and partly about HOW to do that. This is the correct place for this question. Having failed to get any 'paddock maintenance' type firms to even come and look at our new 1.8 acre paddock, we are facing the reality of looking after the land ourselves. We want to buy some kit but we're floundering - it is flat paddock with reasonable access (but the track is too narrow for a full sized tractor). We  want to cut the grass, some of which is mowable with our ride on, but some is far too overgrown and long, with huge thistles which just get flattened. We've decided a flail mower will suit us best for this. We also want to plant a new native hedge and then we'll need to cut said hedge, plus existing hedges in the rest of the property.  There is also the grass on the edges of the maintenance track to cut and strimming it is very time consuming. Finally my husband would really like a front loader for moving soil/compost/gravel/bark chips etc about the place (we also have a half acre garden, a small veg plot and a roughly half acre paddock which we mow with the ride on and I use for dog agility) New compact tractors such as the John Deere are eye wateringly expensive and every time we look in dealers they want to sell us the most expensive thing they've got, it seems to us. Husband not impressed with the idea of a classic tractor and home maintenance, so we're not looking dirt cheap but second hand seems sensible. A lot of second hand ones look very beaten up. We had an awful experience with a horrible second hand Countach ride on when we moved here, so we are wary. Can anyone advise us - What is a reasonable number of hours to look for on the clock of one of these compact tractors second hand? Which makes are reliable? what ought we to avoid like the plague? We'd ideally like something we can attach a flail mower, front loader and hedge trimmer to and husband would prefer petrol engine, we don't have a smallholding licence to get red diesel. Finally, livestock for grazing not an option, we don't want to be tied to the daily care. Thanks in advance

[henchard]

many Chinese built compact tractors are rubbish. Kubota if you can stretch to it in my opinion.

Diesel would be best and you don't need any licence to buy it. A number of garages in rural areas tend to have dispensing pumbs for red diesel.

[sabrina]

We have an old grey fergie. May not look pretty but she is our work horse. Easy to fix if something goes wrong. We did think about buying one of those small compact tractors but heard to many bad reports.

[Sherbatious border]

I always thought you had to prove you are using red diesel for agricultural purposes in some way, in order to buy it! Are you allowed to buy it in jerry cans? We have some petrol stations that get funny about us filling jerry cans even with petrol, for our ride on, strimmer, rotivator, hedge trimmer, chain saw etc. We try to fill up two large jerry cans at a time and some will only let you fill one small one. 

[Backinwellies]

A little confused as to why you would go to all that expense to effectively mow a large lawn ... what is the paddock for?

[stufe35]

Garages get funny about you taking large quantities of petrol (ie more than 1 can )because there are laws about how much you can transport in the boot of a car. There is no such limit for diesel...as it is far less explosive.

Red diesel is readily available to anyone.  The only law is that you cannot use it for road transport vehicles.

So it's fine used on your own land or in you agricultural tractor used on the road in connection with your property. 

[Buttermilk]

We have to fill in a form when we get red diesel, name, address, phone number, what vehicle it is going in and for what reason.  Small tractor for agricultural work is fine as vehicle and reason.  It satisfies the garage and HMRC.  We have not come across a limit and usually fill 3x20 litre jerrycans each time.

[henchard]

I always thought you had to prove you are using red diesel for agricultural purposes in some way, in order to buy it! Are you allowed to buy it in jerry cans? We have some petrol stations that get funny about us filling jerry cans even with petrol, for our ride on, strimmer, rotivator, hedge trimmer, chain saw etc. We try to fill up two large jerry cans at a time and some will only let you fill one small one.

I just take five gallon drums (or the metric equivalent) and fill four at a time. The garage just writes my vehicle registration and the purpose that it's for in the recipt book. Nantycaws Garage, Carmarthen if your passing! Red diesel can be for plant (such as pumps) or boats. Plenty of people buy it for a variety of reasons.

[Sherbatious border]

A little confused as to why you would go to all that expense to effectively mow a large lawn ... what is the paddock for?

I expect the farmer who sold us the paddock is equally confused, since he seemed to view it as a potential building plot and we don't. We bought it partly to make sure we didn't end up with a ruddy great stable and muck heap right next door to our garden if it was sold to someone else. I want to find some way to at least pay for the maintenance on it - either by growing firewood or fruit. My OH would like a wildlife area, owl box in the oak tree, nest boxes, that sort of thing - I think both could be done. I also intend using part of it (mown with our ride on) for more dog training activities, our other paddock is only accessed by going past the house, so I can't hire that out but I could potentially hire out an area of this one, by the hour for people to practice outdoors (people pay for secure places to train). Would like more poultry but we have a neighbouring Jack Russell that roams free and eats chickens (owner gives not a toss) so poultry has to be kept under lock and key. But altogether we now have over 3 acres of gardens and ground to maintain, hedges to cut, rough grassland to bring back under control, and we can't get anyone who advertises locally as 'paddock maintenance' to even come and look at it, they keep failing to turn up. Doesn't seem to be possible to hire equipment, ride on can't cope with it, OH can't cut all those hedges with a garden hedge trimmer, and he has a 200 metre gravel track to maintain, he just wants a machine to help him look after it all.

[stufe35]

How wide is this narrow track you have to negotiate ?

Also whereabouts in the world are you ?

[pgkevet]

I've got near 3 acres of lawn that i mow with a husqvarna front deck (as well as 50 acres of fields, tractor etc) so it's perfectly possible to manage your bit wth simple gear.
If you want a small tractor.. and they are fun.. then you need to decide where you're using it. Agri tyres will rip up a lawn and grass tyres will lack traction for ploughing a veggie patch or chuntering up slopes but hard to justify for your small acreage.
You could have a word with your local agri engineer (as opposed to a sales company).. he may well have some ideas or know about half decent local kit sitting idle.
As to the hedges.. the cost of owning a decent hedge flail.. and a tractor heavy enough not to fall over with it on... unreasonable unless you're loaded. If access doesn;t allow a farmer in to do it contracted then it'll be a manual job...means buying a robust hedge trimmer rather than a cheapy (i have a cheapy and it bends on heavy stuff) or a lightweight chainsaw + protected clothing.. but they can jam on thin stuff.
What do you want to do with the gravel drive? Spraying and raking? A quad bike could do both (also fun).. or even sn old banger of a car with some thought.

[Sherbatious border]

Thank you pgvet, for your practical advice! I think the fun factor was attracting my OH to the idea of a tractor! We have now come up with a plan of action. A local firm we have bought equipment from will hire us a tractor and flail mower, or a local chap is actually coming round (amazing) to quote us to cut it and get it all back to the point where our ride on can cope with it, we'll do whichever is cheaper. The firm we bought the mower from have assured us that once we get it all cut down, our current ride on can cope as the paddock is all flat. We have contacted a local farmer we know via the Parish Meeting to ask what he does re his hedges and will either ask him for a quote to do our out of control laurels and old hawthorn hedge when he is cutting or speak to whatever contractor he uses. And finally we have spoken to a local guy we've used before who has a digger business (we had several jobs that needed doing, including taking out the horrible leylandei hedge) and it turns out he is happy to put in new fences for us (and a gate, the farmer we bought the land from took the gate!) so, we can get all of it under control, at some expense, but done. Once it is all done we can then have a breathing space in which to consider what we need in the way of a tractor for general maintenance of garden and paddock, but we're now thinking compact second hand Kubota with front bucket, and probably no need for the expensive flail mower. Maybe no need for a tractor at all, but OH getting tired of endlessly shovelling gravel (for the track), soil and wood chippings (for the garden), mounds of compost for the veg plot, etc etc. And a tractor does look like fun. Meanwhile on with plans for making the paddock 'wash it's face' and not just look nice. Thanks all and look forward to studying in depth the posts on planting and use of land. eel so much better now we have a plan of action, I could hear that grass growing next door.

[pgkevet]

Tractor is definately fun. I spoilt myself with 43hp one with cab and a/c and 4:1 bucket but also maintenance costs (and repair costs when (someone else) breaks bits can add up
Consider that for most things you don't need a front bucket.. can manage with a back link box and reverse onto stuff to pick it up... any saving then could go towards a PTO rotorvator and make the veggie patch a doddle to do. .. and you can buy the quad bike and tow a small trailer when you don't want to chew up the good grass...or you need to herd sheep...