NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Sterimatic vaccination  (Read 2529 times)

kelly58

  • Joined Mar 2013
  • Highlands, Scotland
  • Home is were my animals are.
Sterimatic vaccination
« on: August 06, 2016, 03:05:08 pm »
Rosemary  !  Have used the Sterimatic vaccinator to jag the lambs.
While using there was vaccine in the needle guard does this happen with you ?
Does it leave the injection site wet too ?
Just want to make sure l have definitely dosed them   :fc:  :sheep:
Voss Electric Fence

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2016, 08:13:38 pm »
It shouldn't do.  Your needle might be loose or your squeeze/withdraw action isn't quite right (should be push in, squeeze, withdraw, un-squeeze).  Don't unsqueeze until you have withdrawn.

Badger Nadgers

  • Joined Mar 2013
  • Derbyshire/North Staffs
  • Teeswater & Hebridean
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2016, 08:15:38 pm »
I've had that a couple of times when doing a few in a hurry.

Check that the needle isn't bent, is on properly and clear, and that the collapsable sleeve hasn't worked loose and thus longer causing the needle to catch inside.

kelly58

  • Joined Mar 2013
  • Highlands, Scotland
  • Home is were my animals are.
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2016, 07:42:29 am »
Does that mean they didnt get a dose then ?
First time using it, many thanks for responding  :thumbsup:

pharnorth

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Cambridgeshire
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2016, 01:58:49 pm »
If you haven't adjusted it yet try injecting into a mock up, for example a folded up tea towel but if not clear better to re jab as two vaccinations better than none.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2016, 09:19:08 am »
Hi Kelly,

I had similar problems the first time I used ours - details and helpful suggestions from others are on this thread!

I now work on the principle that if there's no vaccine on the wool, nor in the needle guard, it must have gone where it was meant to! I also keep the trigger pressed in after every sheep and make sure I hold it up at the right angle when I release, to ensure it gets a full re-charge with no bubbles (this is easy enough to check).

BTW, for Heptavac this year, I just used a standard plastic nozzled needle rather than the all metal sterimatic one, and left off the stericap. This worked absolutely fine. The needle was not sterilised between animals of course, but with only a few animals to do, I'm ok with that. I also injected over the ribs rather than in the neck and found that far easier (this was following advice from our vets - ribs are less wriggly than necks!). HTH!
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2016, 10:25:31 am »
The only thing to watch out for, Womble, is that Heptavac often leaves an abcess (especially if not using a sterile needle, I guess), which can take many months to clear - so with injecting over the ribs, there may still be a lump come clipping time, which the electric clippers would then nick.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 12:23:46 pm »
Sorry, I should have been clearer - we did the adults in the neck for that precise reason, but did the lambs over the ribs. We did have some decent lumps last year, but only one lamb came up with anything this year, and it faded within a few weeks.

For me, the main advantage of the gun is that it makes self-injection less likely; sterility of the needle is a secondary factor. The reason we used a standard needle was that I ordered a sterimatic refill pack but was sent the wrong thing by mistake. The standard needle worked fine though, so I think I may do it again. I guess as a halfway house, the needle could always be changed every so many sheep?
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2016, 01:16:20 pm »
Sorry, I should have been clearer - we did the adults in the neck for that precise reason, but did the lambs over the ribs. We did have some decent lumps last year, but only one lamb came up with anything this year, and it faded within a few weeks.


Sorry, Womble; I remember you saying that somewhere else now.  Yes, that's a good plan.  :thumbsup:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2016, 01:19:04 pm »
Okay, I've got a question about these guns now.  I thought the thing about them was (as well as the needle sterilisation) that the needle only sticks through the skin to a controlled degree, so that, provided the correct needle length is used, the injection is subcutaneous without the whole having to make a tent thing?

I hope so, I did all my sheep this way...  :-\
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Foobar

  • Joined Mar 2012
  • South Wales
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2016, 02:25:34 pm »
Okay, I've got a question about these guns now.  I thought the thing about them was (as well as the needle sterilisation) that the needle only sticks through the skin to a controlled degree, so that, provided the correct needle length is used, the injection is subcutaneous without the whole having to make a tent thing?

I hope so, I did all my sheep this way...  :-\
Yes and no.  They have demo videos here: http://www.sterimatic.co.uk/videoengbb.php  Mostly they tent the skin for SC, but one guy doesn't on some big ugly texel type things.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 03:25:50 pm »
Hmmmm...  Well, I may have vaccinated all my lambs wrong.   :dunce:

The dose was delivered ok, but l didn't make a tent, just relied on the very short penetration depth to be delivering it subcutaneously. 

Any vets care to comment on whether I actually vaccinated my sheep - and whether Heptavac delivered into the neck muscle would cause any problems?  Not that I think there was enough needle protruding to make it an intramuscular injection... ???
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

pharnorth

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Cambridgeshire
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2016, 05:05:18 pm »
@fsmnutter kindly put me right on this one recently; sub cut is absorbed more slowly than im.

For a vaccination this is an advantage as it gives a bit longer for the antibodies to be produced. From what I have seen from immunoassay data it isn't enough to bother you especially since you will be giving two jabs but I'm not a vet and you asked for a vet so always good to hear from one.


fsmnutter

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • Fettercairn, Aberdeenshire
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2016, 06:52:14 pm »
You are right pharnorth, sc is usually absorbed slower than im because muscles have more blood supply than the loose tissue and space under the skin.
I am not sure about efficacy, I would have thought im injection by mistake could be more common than you might think, particularly commercial farmers who are injecting large numbers, the gun may well be used deeper in some than others.
I would expect that with im injection there is more chance of the "vaccine reaction" swelling because by its very nature, vaccine stimulates the immune system and hence causes inflammation, often evidenced by swelling. If injected into muscle with less space to dissipate the swelling and a bigger blood supply to create the inflammation, the reaction may be greater. Sometimes drug reactions to im injections can cause so much swelling that some of the muscle dies, which can open the door to clostridial disease that may be lurking inside the animal but that is rare and I don't think I've heard of it from sheep vaccine.
I also was under the impression the sterimatic is designed to reduce the need to raise a skin tent, so I suspect SitN is right although I doubt it makes a huge difference clinically to the effect of the vaccine. However, if anyone is ever not sure, it is worth asking the technical support of the manufacturers, in this case of both sterimatic and the vaccine.
Hope that is clearer than I think!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 01:46:48 pm by fsmnutter »

kelly58

  • Joined Mar 2013
  • Highlands, Scotland
  • Home is were my animals are.
Re: Sterimatic vaccination
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2016, 12:51:49 pm »
Great feedback , much appreciated   :thumbsup:

 
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