[inmcdonalds]

Hi. Looking for some advice. We have a 3 acre field next to our house. We aren't smallholders but in order to keep the grass down we have a local sheep farmer graze 10 tups on it. We dont charge as we both benefit. Today came back from holiday to be told that 5 of the tups had died. We eventually figured it was probably due to us putting our lawn clippings in a heap in the field. Sheep had eaten it and developed bloat, and then died. We were absolutely mortified. Farmer seemed fairly relaxed a about it and said that 'these things happen'  and also said 3 of them were pretty old and going to the pasture in the sky in august anyway.  Nevertheless I feel pretty stupid not knowing that cut grass was bad for sheep, and I also feel bad for the financial loss of the farmer. We offered to recompense this but he said not to be silly and he would just tear up the check. He just wanted to let us know about the grass issue and was happy to keep putting sheep on the field in the future.

Despite this I would still feel better if I gave him some money. However I've no idea how much tups cost . They are cheviots I think. The other thing is that he may have them insured for this type of incident anyway, although didn't mention this at the time and I neglected to ask. Is it normal for a farmer to be insured for this?

[henchard]

Insured? Would be almost unheard of. The ram's value would depend on their age. Average ram's ( not too old) say £400 to £600 . Cull rams say around £100

Just my opinion.

[inmcdonalds]

Thanks. I'm surprised that insurance isn't that common given the hIgh value of the tups, albeit that they were on there last legs.

[Louise P]

So sorry for your loss. You must feel awful.
It is just one of those things. We all have to learn and we all make mistakes.
Try not to beat yourself up about it.
It's up to you how you want to deal with the situation now. The farmer sounds very understanding. He might well have insurance but probably wouldn't claim for that.
If it were me, I would probably go round with some wine and chocolates/flowers and a cheque for  £300? and leave it on his doorstep saying I felt terrible and this was my way of offering some recompense.
He possibly won't cash it and you will feel better that you've made the gesture. The money won't cover the full value of the tups but he will also have to pay to have them taken away now so you're probably meeting him half way.
You won't make that mistake again and he can continue to enjoy his free grazing.
Please don't be to hard on yourself xx

[inmcdonalds]

Thanks Louise. That was my inclination too and it's then up to him if he wants to cash it. I'd feel better if he did, even if it doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully it is the grass cuttings that did it though. We've been round the rest of the field and there are no other suspects. The only thing that doesn't fit is that I've done exactly the same thing with the grass cuttings in previous years. It was a different farmer though then and maybe those sheep weren't so bothered with grass cuttings.

[Melmarsh]

I'm going to throw a curved ball here and say that I like you would be devastated if this happened to me but,  assuming you don't have sheep and therefore wouldn't realise that there could be a problem and it hasn't happened before, the farmer should take some responsibility and should have walked the field to check for any problems !!! Just saying 

[inmcdonalds]

Probably correct to a degree. But, sometimes bad stuff happens and everyone plays a part in it to some extent, so I guess I'd like to do something to at least help solve the problem. Even if it is just a token gesture. The farmer will be taking the biggest hit by the sounds of it.

[Old Shep]

Maybe don't ask for rent for a couple of years?

[inmcdonalds]

that would be a good idea but we dont charge anyway at the moment and weren't intending to change that arrangement.

[Fleecewife]

I would not give money - you would either be offering peanuts for valuable tups, or too much for older animals.  If he wanted to accept money then he would have at the original point.  Farmers are business people and don't do the 'oh no I couldn't possibly accept anything' approach, while meaning 'gimme',  then accept once you insist.  It isn't like that.
He is getting free grazing, with somewhere to keep his tups well away from his ewes.
He should indeed have walked the pasture before he put them on there. As you say, you are not smallholders so he should not have assumed that you knew enough about livestock to be able to protect his animals - it is his responsibility.
There's no such thing as a free lunch, as he now knows.
You have apologised and learnt from your mistake, he has accepted your apology. Don't grovel.

Find somewhere else to keep your grass - in fact make a proper compost heap and preserve your fertility, instead of chucking it away.

For me, this tale demonstrates why you should always have a formalised agreement when letting out land, even with no rent charged.  Both parties know where their rights and responsibilities lie.

[harmony]

You don't know for certain it was your grass cuttings. The farmer gets free grazing. If these were high quality and expensive tups and he thought something you'd done had killed them  I am sure he would ASK for compensation but he hasn't. My conclusion is he doesn't know for sure and he doesn't want to pay for the grazing, which he may feel he should if you compensate.  The farmer across from me topped his field and put his sheep back in and they are all still alive. You were on holiday so when did you put the grass cuttings in there? Could easily have been something else and you should feel lucky that your neighbour has not taken you for a ride. Plenty would of.

[SallyintNorth]

Poor you! 

Absolutely don't blame yourself.  You'll know in future.

The farmer does, I hope, check his tups every day?

I live with a farmer, and I completely agree with Fleecewife; if he thought money was due he would have accepted your offer. 

Cull value of aged tups is probably around £70 - £80, plus removal of dead stock will be around £20 per head.  We pay £500 a year to a neighbour for 6 months grazing on 5 acres.

If you still want to give him something, a bottle of whiskey is usually appreciated - or if you're worried about giving alcohol when you don't know the person's proclivities, some home baking.  Especially if there's no farmer's wife at home .

[Marches Farmer]

I agree.  A large and toothsome cake cures many problems.  Might your lawn clippings have contained a lot of clover?  Had you used anything like mosskiller or weedkiller nearby? 

[Hevxxx99]

As mentioned above, maybe don't try to compensate for the tups, but cover the cost of the disposal? As they would have been taken to be incinerated, most likely, it will have cost a bit.

Horrible for you. You live and learn.

[inmcdonalds]

The clover hadn't come through a couple of weeks ago so I don't think it that. I used weedkiller on some of the grass in April but made sure not to put this cut or the next 2 or 3 cuts  in the field.

The lawn provides copious amounts of green grass, too much for our compost heap, hence I put e surplus in the field. However, looks like I'll need to make a bigger compost heap from now on.

I'd have to pay someone to eat my cakes.   

In my head I know that getting a formalised agreement is what I should sort out. I had avoided it because I've no idea how to go about this, and also thought that if I wasn't charging it wasn't as important. Thankfully the farmer is being pretty nice about the whole thing on this occasion but it has been a salient reminder of how what seems like a fairly straightforward arrangement can end in pretty bad consequences.