[burningembers]

Hello everyone, I'm hoping for some advice. We have some land, it is in a semi-residential area with a house opposite, to one side and a static caravan on the other side. The land is agricultural though and previous attempts by other owners for change to residential have been turned down.  When we bought it, it was very high brambles, nettles, weeds etc. Lots of old tools, bits of random wood lying around and a caravan, in a rather bad state containing domestic use items.  We have replaced the old caravan with another and we store domestic items and toys in it.  Over the years we have got rid of the brambles and nettles and it is now grass, we have planted fruit trees and we have trampolines for children to play on.  There is a shed and field shelter we store tools and also tables and chairs in.  The shed has an asbestos roof, we wanted to replace the shed with a new one so asked local council if this was ok. We let them come and have a look at the place. Now they say we need to remove all domestic items as the land is agricultural but the caravan can stay.  I think there has been a caravan there for probably about 40 years.  The caravan has not been used for storage of agricultural items but for domestic use items.  I was wondering if this means that the land the caravan has been standing on is then not just agricultural?  No one has ever said the caravan needs to go.  Could this fact be used to argue that the trampolines and tables can stay?  We are trying to be helpful and open but it seems very mean spirited of them to demand we stop enjoying a piece of land we have worked hard to improve, removed all ragwort from, planted trees and tended....

[mart6]

How large is the piece of land ?
How do you use it ?
Any livestock on it.?
What domestic items do the council want you to remove ?
Trampoline may be pushing it, but you could argue the toys are to entertain the children while you are on site working
You are allowed certain domestic items if the primary use of the site is in agricultural use, most councils will try to tell you otherwise.

I won my enforcement appeal against my council they took exception to everything

I was allowed to keep  heating,fridge freezer , soffa table ,chairs, sink,kitchen units,cooker, kettle ect.
Council even tried saying i needed planning permission to house dogs in stable block while on site

A right bunch of dip sticks

[burningembers]

It's about 1.6 acres
We are growing a lot of trees and some raspberries, grapes etc
It has a field shelter that has been there for a long time, we use it to store tools but also tables and chairs.
The caravan has been there for around 40 years or more and has always been used for storing domestic items rather than agricultural.
They want us to remove all tables, chairs, toys, trampolines basically anything that isnt for agricultural use. I was wondering if the long history of being used for domestic storage meant that the land by default was not strictly agricultural only?

[mart6]

You would need to prove the caravan has been in residential use or used for storage for 10 continues years.
Would need sworn statements ect in case they issue a enforcement notice which you could appeal.
Trampoline looks like a lost cause  without the above.
The table and chairs-  you could explain you use them while harvesting raspberries or grapes ect

I would imagine the council are aware the caravan has been there a long time hence no comment.
May pay to try and keep council on side by removing trampoline
And ask them what they mean by domestic items they need to be more precise
What are your future plans for site ?

[verdifish]

Where are you? 

[burningembers]

Plans are to just keep tending the trees, growing things and enjoying the green space.
Yes I think the trampolines will have to go... sad as youngest son is a real gymnast
We are in England so it's english planning law that applies

[shygirl]

trampoline? just move it along. when do you need PP for a trampoline?

[greenbeast]

You don't specifically but using the ground purely as amenity rather than agriculture might constitute change of use

[devonlady]

Don't these petty, silly regulations make you cross!! Surely if you have paid good, hard earned money for a little piece of land you should, within reason be able to do as you please on it, be it trampolines,walking your dogs or just sitting and enjoying the view.
When we bought our land it was, initially purely to exercise the dogs on (but once a farmer's daughter..........)
What about land that is bought purely to put horses on (I love horses as much as anyone) have these folk applied for change of use?
Of course I don't agree that your little piece should be covered in houses or turned into a fun fair but a child's trampoline? That beggars belief!
Fight on and good luck!

[harmony]

Don't these petty, silly regulations make you cross!! Surely if you have paid good, hard earned money for a little piece of land you should, within reason be able to do as you please on it, be it trampolines,walking your dogs or just sitting and enjoying the view.
When we bought our land it was, initially purely to exercise the dogs on (but once a farmer's daughter..........)
What about land that is bought purely to put horses on (I love horses as much as anyone) have these folk applied for change of use?
Of course I don't agree that your little piece should be covered in houses or turned into a fun fair but a child's trampoline? That beggars belief!
Fight on and good luck!

Are they petty rules? Do we want little plots of land, or even big plots, all over looking like extended family gardens, static caravans?  Seems to me that generally people complain about planning because it either stops them doing what they want to or because they might have to look it. [size=78%]   [/size]

[burningembers]

I can see it from both sides. In this case though, the caravan has been there for a long time, there are residential dwellings on 3 sides and before we got it, it was just brambles and nettles.  We also have made a pond which is very wildlife friendly, planted lots of trees and generally looked after the place including pulling ragwort every summer.  I would sacrifice the trampolines, it's the tables and chairs that concern me.  The question I really want answered is, since the caravan and contents have been there for a long time, like decades, and they have been used for non agricultural purposes, with no complaints or intervention by anyone, does that mean the land use is by default not strictly agricultural only?

[Buttermilk]

For proper answers you need to consult a land solicitor.

[mart6]

By the sound of it the only other use you could claim is storage
you would need 10 years continuous use and proof.
Still would not give permission for trampoline if you got it.
Table and chairs you could possibly get away with as the are incidental to agricultural use in if you can prove you use them

[waterbuffalofarmer]

when you signed the contract for the land was there anything unusual about it at all? Sorry this is happening and I hope you resolve this soon. It would be good to look at it to see if there are any ties to it or clauses of some sort, but yes I would speak to a land solicitor.

[pharnorth]

I guess it depends how agricultural your table and chairs are.  We keep a few wooden ones up in the barn as when boxing fruit and that sort of thing it is handy to be able to sit down.