[TheSmilingSheep]

We have, sadly, two orphan twins.  Mum died having (valiantly - like they do) given birth two days before, so our twins are now a week old.  We have a flock of about 25, and by the end of next week should have about 18 other lambs.

Whilst a ewe and lamb will spend a day or two penned in the barn, they are then back outside....

Our twin orphans are obviously barn bound at the moment.  But we have taken them outside for a short while each day since they were four days old - we're very keen for them to be with other lambs, and become as flock socialised as possible.  Whilst I imagine they will always be a bit more human orientated than the rest, we want them to be as sheepy as possible and enjoy that life (and not want to sit in the kitchen with us and drink tea!)...

So, I am craving your ideas and experiences as to how and when to increase their time in the paddocks....  I've just seen their lamb cousins doing the 8pm wild running time, and then seen our two sitting in their barn of straw - seems a bit lonely and unfair (I know they're animals.....)

I'm wondering whether they will not be safer as part of the flock, and I'm wondering what the dangers are of being outside all night with the other sheep.... and at what age they can be expected to cope etc.   Our smallholding is modest, and we can see their fields from our windows, and we can check up on them regularly....

But, we would like to give them the best chance of survival (literally, and as part of a flock)...

For avoidance of doubt, we would have passed them on to other ewe mums but timing etc didn't make that possible.....

[suziequeue]

I can't confess to having a great deal of expertise in this but I would have thought that  they would be better out than in?

They have had 48hrs of maternal colostrum so that's a good start.

Presumably they know by now that humans = food so they will come to the fence for a bottle when they see you, which means that if they are showing signs of needing to come back in then they would be easy to catch - perhaps they can go in at night to begin with whilst both you and they develop more confidence.

Sheep flock dynamics are lasting and important so the more time they have to integrate with their peer group the better IMO.

I expect somebody will be along soon who has had years of experience to impart.

[TheSmilingSheep]

Thank you for that.... it's really what we want to hear, but equally we don't want to be rash....  I've read stuff suggesting that orphan lambs don't start going outside until a few weeks old, and don't stay outside until 12+ weeks, which all seems very slow...

As ever, all/any responses appreciated....

[suziequeue]

Yes :-) more responses appreciated!! 

[SallyintNorth]

A ewe will sometimes go to a lamb that isn't hers that's in distress, but the ewes aren't going to make sure that the orphans are safe, show them where to hide, gather them up if the flock is moving, and so on.

So on our sort of ground, orphans wouldn't last long out with the flock when they're very young. Not to mention how frightening it would be for them if there was a threat - a walker with a loose dog, for instance - and they don't have a mummy to run to for security and comfort.

If a ewe dies, when the lambs are say 6 weeks old, we might leave the lambs with the flock.  They already know how the flock works, where to be safe, where to shelter, and so on.  But bottle-reared orphans haven't learned all this.

Another consideration is whether the orphans might start pinching milk from the ewes.  It starts with them copying their new friends, and the next thing you know is that the mothered lambs are going short, and/or the ewes are getting thin, or mastitis, because the orphans are routinely stealing milk when their pals get a feed.

A mother will teach her lamb about eating grass, won't let it gorge and bloat.

And so on.

Having said all of which, if you have a setup where you can get the orphans back in for the night, which is safe for them during the day, and you can watch for signs of pinching milk and change the regime if that starts to happen, well then yes it's nicer for them to be able to run about with other lambs.  But from maybe 4 weeks old, not at a week old, and introduce them to grass gradually.  I'd be worried about them eating too much grass and bloating younger than that.  A mothered lamb is getting milk little and often, so doesn't get so hungry between meals that it eats too much grass.  A bottle-fed lamb will get hungry between meals and is therefore likely to eat too much grass for its developing rumen.

My 5 week old pets are on 3-4 hours a day out on poor grass at the moment, just starting to be let onto slightly better grass now.  I'll have them out most of the day in another few days, if we get the weather for it.  The 3 week olds are getting supervised walks / play out on grass when I have the time, just for maybe 20 minutes. 

[Brandi]

I would be very concerned about them at that age left to their own devices with the flock. They do have one another and I would be keeping thrm in at least during the night for the next 4-6 weeks.

[Hellybee]

Totally with Sally and Brandi. Keep them safe, your they're mama   .

[TheSmilingSheep]

OK - thanks for all of that.... a plan emerging..... I will just have to step up on my sheep impersonation and play technique.....

[ladyK]

A very timely thread for me as I sadly now have my first ever orphans to raise...

TSS - would you care to share some of your emerging plan and 'play technique'?

How do you take lambs out 'for a short while' or how do you do 'supervised play' on grass?
This may seem a really daft question but my only lamb experience is skittish Soay lambs (and it was quite a job to catch these two after their mum went down) and I can't imagine they can get caught again if they don't want to - though I realise that in a couple of days(?) they may start coming to me for their bottle.

I could let them out in the garden for a short while each day so that they can run a bit and nibble at greenery (which I imagine is important for developing their rumen?) and I could also shut them in overnight as well once they can go back on the field wit the rest.
 

[TheSmilingSheep]

ladyK - very happy to share our (learning by the day!) routines.... I'll pm you later (don't want to bore everyone with the detail...) but just about to do the 9.30am bottle feed...

Also, just wanted to say that my heart goes out to you (as I know does everyone's) - we've had the most wretched lambing, and whilst it's good to learn new skills (tubing, glucose injecting, box heating, mis-presentation resolution - in rain and mud) I'd sort of not have had to learn these things!...     

We lost the mother to our twins two days after she gave birth, and whilst the twins needed heating up etc. when she was penned with them she was a good (a v experienced) mother and clearly doing her best...  When she started to seem not right, we got the vet out, and they similarly did all they could, after we'd already administered pain relief and abs.....  but to no avail, and we called vet back a few hours later when it was decided to help her go.... Heart-breaking and traumatic, and sort of no time to say goodbye when you've two orphans needed immediate full time care....

Good luck, and more later...

[ladyK]

Thank you so much TSS, looking forward to hear more

I feel for you... glad your orphans seem to be doing well. I found not having time to say goodbye' very difficult too, obviously the lambs became the immediate priority last night. As bad luck would have it, I have to work in London today, so had to leave OH in charge with detailed instructions, and by he time I get back my old girl's body will have been collected too...
 

[SallyintNorth]

Sending hugs to you both for the loss of your ewes 

You know the rhyme 'Mary had a little lamb, It's fleece was white as snow.  And everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go.' ?  It was a botle-fed lamb. 

As soon as they come to you for their bottle, you have become Mum, and they'll run alongside you, cry when they can't see you, come running and shouting to you if they're scared, and so on.  Talk to them when you're feeding and caring for them, so they know your voice, and you'll be able to call them to you.  Forever ;p. (It can become a mixed blessing...)

When you take them for a walk - just put them on the ground and walk off; they'll follow - out onto grass, at first they won't go far from you but gradually they'll want to run and jump, then eventually to nibble.  You can run and jump with them if you want, but it's not necessary

They must have forage, be it straw, hay or grass, from very early on, in order to stimulate the rumen to develop properly.  Mostly it seems best to give them straw or soft hay at first, from a few days old, and start to introduce them to grass at a few weeks, once their rumen has started to work a bit.

[Rosemary]

You can run and jump with them if you want, but it's not necessary

Video required 

[nimbusllama]

As always we can rely on SallyintNorth to give the very best advice in the nicest possible way    I find myself liking every post you make.   

[SallyintNorth]

 Awwww shucks :blush: