[Old Shep]

Hi - this could be a long post, but I'll try to keep it short!

Lambing 2015 was a disaster - over 20% losses.  Obviously we had the vets involved, PM's etc, but apart from a couple of cases of Toxo (even though we had vacc'd!) the main trend was lambs surviving a couple of days then dying.  Not watery mouth or watery belly.  Many had weak necks and sort of nodded ( a bit like Stevie Wonder!)Not Borders disease - tested for that. The only outcome from PM's was septicaemia - which I'm presuming is just infection.  We had a couple that when we lambed them the head kept flopping backwards rather than coming with the feet.  We also had one at 4 weeks old that became paralysed at the back end and sadly had to be euthanized.

Moving on to the back end of the year we had problems with the tup lambs and a shearing tup.  Despite having grass, been wormed etc, a few just faded to nothing, and went lame in a sort of neurological way rather than mechanical, the worst didn't seem to have any feeling in one back leg.  3 of them died over a few weeks.  We had one PM'd - negative for Johnnes, clear of fluke and worms.  We then did a sample test of the flock for MV - negative (thank god).

Moving on again, only a few weeks ago we researched into selenium and cobalt deficiencies and a thought there were some similarities to what we had been experiencing.  The pasture at 2015 lambing had been very wet and not much grass although they got ad lib hay and cake too.  Moreover reading a couple of blogs where people had had selenium deficiencies more symptoms were mentioned (that aren't on the "official list of symptoms - Nadis") that sounded very similar.  So we drenched with selenium and cobalt (not copper as most are Texels) and this lambing time (touch wood) has not seen the same problems,  (other problems yes - like too many multiples!).

This post has been prompted by fsmnutter's post on a thread about a paralysed lamb being possible selenium deficiency - which then rang a bell.   

I wondered if anyone has had any experience of this deficiency and can share what symptoms they found? Hopefully we've turned a corner now, but this thread may also help others seeing similar things.

[Marches Farmer]

Did any of the lambs sway around at the back end when they tried to walk, then stagger and regain their balance?  That's swayback and caused by the ewe's inability to effeciently metabolise the copper in her diet during pregnancy.  Selenium deficiency (white muscle disease) is generally seen as stiffness in lambs under two weeks old, leading to inability to stand.

[Old Shep]

No there was no swayback.


We thought the same that selenium deficiency = white muscle disease (which didn't  seem like what we had).  But having been to a talk by a vet who has done some work on trace element deficiencies, she had seen many cases of the deficiency and yet not one case of white muscle disease!  Maybe that happens in extreme cases?

[Marches Farmer]

I believe the extreme form is more common in the Antipodes.  We had a thorough blood testing exercise done on all our adult sheep one year and there was considerable variation each side of the optimum for each mineral but no discernible pattern throughout the flock.

[GrannyAching]

If you have blood tested and found low selenium/cobalt are you drenching regularly? I couldn't tell from your posts. Most drenches are only good for a couple of weeks you need to bolus for longer cover. Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs.

Clearly something's not right. What are your birth weights like?

Also could your autumn problems be due to ticks? Do you treat for them - I couldn't see it on your list.

[Clarebelle]

I don't know what your soil is like but ours is very Sandy and consequently is deficient in cobalt. We have to bolus every six months, like someone else mentioned, the drenches don't last very long.

[Old Shep]

Thanks for your comments everyone - all very helpful.

Birth weights were ok, and ticks aren't generally a problem around here - but that is a thought.


We drenched before lambing this year and will repeat and looking into bolusing as a more long term job.  DO you have any problems with them spitting them out or damaging the back of the throats?


Hopefully we have it sorted but was interested in what symptoms anyone else has experienced.  It would be too easy for us to put everything down to this deficiency and overlook other problems

[Marches Farmer]

Get the vet to do it the first time so you can watch.  You can do a lot of damage if you don't get it right.

[GrannyAching]

I started doing it last year. I was really worried about doing it myself but felt paying the vet after the expense of the blood test was more than I could easily justify. I know if you lose a ewe etc etc. So I read every forum I could and watched you-tube videos. 

One of the things I felt was that a lot of the problems commercial producers had was operator fatigue, it is an exacting process so I was determined to take it slowly and carefully. I went for the Agrimin smartrace boluses in the end mainly because they had a special deal on the gun and lamb boluses but also they are made in two parts so I figured if the worse happened and they did get stuck in the oesophagus they paper would dissolve quickly and it might move. The holding stance is important to stop the animals bouncing after that, the hardest part is going in far enough over the tongue as long as you do that they will swallow them really well. I also ran a hand down their throats to check nothing was stuck.

Once I had got my confidence I only two spit out after I thought they had gone down.

EDIT Sally beat me to it really but came back to say 2015 was a really bad autumn tick year in this part of the world.

[SallyintNorth]

There are drenches and there are drenches.  You need the key minerals in chelated form, or they do only give a short-lived boost.  A good chelated drench will last for several months.  You're in North Yorks, so Paul Keable probably covers your area, or Carrs do Ovithrive, which was almost identical last time I checked.  Paul is extremely knowledgeable, it's worth going to him as much for the chat as for the drenches.

I've only used boluses on stirks, so can't comment on boluses vs chelated drenches.

On ticks, we never saw many ticks here until the last 2-3 years.  Like most areas, they are on the increase - and the mild winter didn't give us a break from them this year, either. 

[shep53]

There are discussions at the moment to ban all forms of mineral drenches

[SallyintNorth]

There are discussions at the moment to ban all forms of mineral drenches

What?!!      Where?  Why?

[waterbuffalofarmer]

I wouldn't worry [member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member]  its probably just the townies thinking how evil it is to drench sheep, or the marketing firms wanting to boost sales of boluses!

[Hellybee]

Ban drenches, what on earth .....

[Rosemary]

I wouldn't worry [member=10673]SallyintNorth[/member]  its probably just the townies thinking how evil it is to drench sheep, or the marketing firms wanting to boost sales of boluses!

Let's not start a townie / country them and us. We need the townies to buy our produce.