[devonlad]

Not sure there's an answer, other than "shoot the buggers" but our 2 old dogs are currently making dog ownership little more than  misery. Both OH and I have independently secretly hoped that one of them might just keel over one morning, and after the inevitable tears, life would be so much easier.
.
Barney our terrier has always been, "the problem child", lovable at times, quirky at times and a downright pain in the arse most of the time. his dogs trust beginnings suggest a dog with a troubled start to life but despite him spending 14 1/2 of his 15 years with us he has remained a difficult dog on occasions. with barney you can guarantee that whatever direction everyone else is headed, he'll go the other way. we have learnt over many years the best way to manage him, and on occasions this means humouring him and he has probably taught me more about tolerance and flexibility than just about anyone or anything else. however he has single handedly affected much of our life. his unpredictability has increased as hes got older, meaning that he is not exposed to situations he wouldn't cope with= our little nephew doesn't visit and we have been unable to go on holiday twice in past year as there is nowhere we can leave him. family are no longer prepared to have him kennels are out

Bear our springer is 14 and has until very recently been as close to the perfect dog we could ever have wished for. an almost bullet proof, lovable happy boy, who as he has got older the prospect of life without him feels close to unbearable. Right now however Bear seems to be helping us with the future prospect of mourning him, and has become every bit as difficult as barney has always been. in truth its not his fault as such. he has developed several symptoms of dementia, chews anything he can get hold of, raids the kitchen bin, has several obsessive behaviours including bowl licking etc. we have been to the vet and although they tried him on vitofyllin it made no difference so was stopped. all of this is annoying but the worst bit Is that he has developed a pathological hatred of barney. its fair to say, "about time", after years of barney being the aggressor, but now bear attacks barney with venom at every available opportunity. today for example its happened 6 or 7 times alone and starts the moment we leave the room and increasingly when we're there. the easy answer is of course don't leave them together and whenever possible we don't- they don't sleep or eat in the same room.but our world is currently a sea of mud and there are times when it has to happen or the whole house is a mess. true to form barney has now decided his favourite place is bear's bed, and bear's bed which adds to bear's territorial behaviour.
reading this back it doesn't come close to how miserable our lovely boys are making us. I don't  really expect answers but it feels good to air it. whatever happens, as always we will do our best by them both but right now THEY ARE DRIVING US CRAZY

[fsmnutter]

As a vet I would ask is your spaniel painful somewhere? If he gets easily angered at the other dog this may be the reason.
I would ask the vet for a trial of an NSAID for possible arthritis, and many older dogs with possible subtle back pain seem to do well on gabapentin, which helps neurological pain and as an anti-seizure medication originally, sometimes can help with brain and behaviour issues too.
There are other drugs available for dementia, if your vitofyllin didn't help, selegiline may be worth a try.
I'd go back to the vet and see what they would suggest as some treatment may be able to improve things for all of you.

[devonlad]

thanks fsm- should have mentioned, Bear (spaniel) was diagnosed with arthritis about 3 years ago in his hips and has plt tablet daily. it seems to work in keeping him mobile and we have additional metacam for the very occasional bad day. physically hes remarkably good, but he is going a bit in the head- he has attacked fresh air in "his" room when barneys not even in there

[Jukes Mum]

Sorry to hear this. It is difficult when we are so dedicated to our dog's happiness and wellbeing while trying to maintain out own sanity!
We have a one 'problem child' dog; interestingly a spaniel too. He has had no end of 'things' wrong with him, but the odd behaviours you mention could, as fsmnutter says, be pain related.
Our boy had really odd hyperactive behaviour, would get himself in a real tiz and even pee himself. This has been caused by 1) ear infections (resulted in surgery! 2)upset stomach/stomach pain (changed to raw diet) and 3) arthritis.
For his recent arthritis, he very rarely presented as stiff or lame, but we knew he was in pain with something because of his odd behaviour which we had noticed with previous conditions.  He was only stiff after a full day's work, but x-rays showed that he has arthritis in all 4 paws, one elbow and his lumber sacral joint. Possible his neck as well, but it was not too easy to see the vertebrae on the x-ray. Although I am a bit of a sceptic, I was convinced to try him on turmeric. Within a couple of weeks, he was obviously more comfortable as his manic behaviour has lessened greatly (I'd like to say he's back to normal, but to be honest, he's never been normal!).
Not sure if this helps at all, but thought I'd share re the relationship of pain with behaviour.

[shygirl]

in our experience, fights increase when one is injured or compromised in someway.
our two wee dogs , a lhaso apso and a terrier, were terrible fighters but had calmed a lot in last few years.
however this week one got bitten by another dog, drawing blood and instantly the fights began again to the point of them being separated again.
I think dogs see weakness in the other, and pain makes everything more unpredictable, and it doesn't take much to set things off.
2 boys together isn't ideal, (we have 3 dogs and 2 bitches) our bitch puppy gets away with blue murder with all of our dogs and behaves in a way that would be a trigger huge fight otherwise.

sounds a tricky situation for you, sympathies 

[baffledog1]

Have you asked locally for acupuncture for the dogs. had an old Springer Spaniel bitch who was suffering from joint problems and developed as a result a very unusual bad-temper. Luckily one of the vets at the local surgery was an specialist in acupuncture. She went once a month for the last 2years of her life and the difference in temper and mobility was amazing.... Just a thought.

[Jukes Mum]

i'd love to try acupuncture, or TTouch on my spaniel, but he goes into panic if anyone he doesn't know well even tries to stroke him. He's really not very normal (but I do love him a lot).

[devonlad]

Lots of support and some ideas worth pursuing (typical TAS), thanks as always. Currently although our spaniels more irritating behaviours are fairly widespread, but liveable with, its the aggression to our terrier that's the most distressing. And so far its reserved solely for him. We often have my sister in laws lab here and he is very much part of the family. Him and bear eat together and sleep together with never a murmur, plus our cat sleeps in with him. He reamians the same joyful, slightly deaf and slightly creaky character apart from with barney. Whether its payback for years of annoyance, or (interestingly I have wondered  this) barney has some hidden ailment we're unsure. As old dogs their visits to the vet have become more regular and although barney is a strange and inconsistent character difficult to read, there isn't anything obvious. Thanks all, helpful to at least put it out there and will speak to vet again re other options

[Old Shep]

Crates might help with the separation?  With something nice to chew when you put them in (but removed to aviod fights when you let them out.

[doganjo]

Devonlad, you can't believe how good it feels to know I am not alone

I have two bitches that would kill each other - and have tried in moments when I have been careless.  I have been lucky and only been hospitalised once because of their biting me in error.

Both are loveable girls to all other dogs, and people, my two other dogs can open doors so my kitchen door is kept locked at all times, and the only time we are all together is in the evening when either Belle or Freckles is caged.

I have a cage in the lounge and another in the kitchen, and use an airlock system with the doors when moving them from one room to another.

Pain and fear are usually the main contributory factors in aggression.