[danconfessed]

Hi all,

I finally have the opportunity to dip my toe's into the cattle world.  I have kept/ reared and bred pigs for a about 10 years but always wanted a couple of cattle too.  I decided to go down the route of two steers to rear rather than an in calf heifer and one at foot. 

Really liked the look of the Red polls and after researching them would work well in my situation.  I have spoken to a chap who has two entire bulls rather than Steers.  Other than the obvious (!) what is the difference??

I understand that bulls finish quicker but are there any downsides?  ie, temperament, handling or even Bull taint (not sure that even is such a thing!)

[Rosemary]

Bulls are fiesty; steers a pussycats by comparison. Bit like stallions and geldings. Personally, I wouldn't start with bulls, but that's just my opinion.

[Buttermilk]

Young bulls will be looking for girls when the hormones kick in just like teenage boys.  They also play rougher and are harder on fencing and housing.

[landroverroy]

I keep Herefords and Highlands - both very laid back breeds (as I believe Red Polls are also). I don't castrate them normally and the young bulls are as placid, sometimes more so, than the females.
But, as Buttermilk said, they will escape and go looking for females if kept in a male-only situation. And believe me - cattle only stay in a field that they want to stay in. So if your fencing is in any way less than 100% perfect then it won't keep in anything that is on a mission and determined to get out. Young bulls that have escaped for a reason are not easy to get back and tend to annoy neighbouring farmers who do not want their cattle crossed with yours.

Bulls do finish quicker than heifers, but generally you get a lower price/kg in the fatstock market than you do for heifers. Steers on average fetch a price between the 2.

If it were me, as a starter I would go for females. Much less potential for problems. 

[SallyintNorth]

Bulls are fiesty; steers a pussycats by comparison. Bit like stallions and geldings. Personally, I wouldn't start with bulls, but that's just my opinion.

I'm in agreement with Rosemary; bullocks all the way.  Females go looking for action too, once the hormones start   And they're like giddy teenagers even when they're not hormonal.  It really is like stallions, mares and geldings.

[Backinwellies]

Entire bull rearing for meat is normally done indoors ... for all reasons outlined.  Handling bulls is a skill which I as a seasoned cattle person prefer to avoid .... you need much more robust handling systems than with castrates or heifers ....I would like to know why is he selling 2 entires for meat.

[fsmnutter]

You could always get him to have the vet castrate them, or get the vet to them yourself.
There are breeders who have handling facilities to keep home bred bulls to sell as stores, and fatteners who also have facilities to keep entire males to slaughter weight.
Intact males often grow quicker and there is a risk of things like bleeding, swelling or infections with any method of castration, even a slight risk of death, so if the risks of castration outweigh the benefits in your system, then farmers won't castrate.
However, the prices for entire bull beef is now dropping so maybe some are trying to get rid, I know of one farmer who has always sold his entire bulls as stores, and is on the verge of retirement but is going to castrate this year because otherwise he'll lose a lot.

[farmers wife]

Unless you are commercial and looking at get the weights then you do not need to go near bulls and the hassle as listed above.  You'll have to have a good race and manage bulls and unless you are strong and have plenty of people around you then dont bother. I have a tasty Aberdeen bull in the shed even my husband is very very careful with him.


Steers are much better will finish well if slowly grown and of good parentage.  I know a lot about beef and you cant get a good beef carcass from a rubbish breed animal no matter how much grain you stuff into them.  So be careful what you buy a poor calf will more than likely be a poor conformation 30 monther particularly with native breeds (had some lean longhorns in the past - no good).  Native breeds are really best finished as late as possible but with the 30 month rule spoils what could be a fine specimen of beef.


I would go for quality steers but these would need to go before 30 months if you want to mature the carcass on the bone for 21 days or so.  You need an excellent fat coverage and mabelling with you will get from all native breeds. You cant finish native breeds quick unless you want to spend a fortune stuffing them with grain (personally unethical and expensive) you need excellent pasture to keep cattle and get a good finish, strip grazing (mob grazing better) is essential if you want to do it properly to get the best outcome without too many inputs.


Silage spoil is the worst I have tasted - never actually heard of anyone having bull taint.


Always start with the easier option and see how it goes.  Cattle do take good management and totally reply on good pasture/top qual hay. You enter into the world of TB testing and vets fees.  Go for full health status cattle to avoid BVD and all the other aliments.  Start with the best animals.

[Sbom]

Steers.

[Rosemary]

So be careful what you buy a poor calf will more than likely be a poor conformation 30 monther particularly with native breeds (had some lean longhorns in the past - no good).  Native breeds are really best finished as late as possible but with the 30 month rule spoils what could be a fine specimen of beef.


You cant finish native breeds quick unless you want to spend a fortune stuffing them with grain (personally unethical and expensive) you need excellent pasture to keep cattle and get a good finish, strip grazing (mob grazing better) is essential if you want to do it properly to get the best outcome without too many inputs.

Our Shetlands go off at about 26-28 months with a god fat covering and produce the most magnificent beef. Grass in summer; straw and a licky bucket in winter. It's not a commercial carcase ie doesn't resemble a whale but themeat quality is second to none.

[SallyintNorth]

Do you know how many kilos you get back, butchered, from one of your Shetlands, Rosemary?

[Rosemary]

Do you know how many kilos you get back, butchered, from one of your Shetlands, Rosemary?

I should but I don't. I always say I will record it but in the frenzy of putting together the beef boxes, I don't.

[SallyintNorth]

I do understand!  I only know how much I got off the Jersey because I know how many (10x 1kg) boxes we did, and how much we had left over for us

[Factotum]

We spend a few 'happy' hours in our butcher's coldroom recording all the packs he's made fom our beasties. To say it's a bit chilly is an understatement...

A few rough stats (to save boring you with the details) - just under 30 month Shetland steer gives around 160-190kg of well marbled meat. Carcasses all have classification of O+4H (the 4H indicates a highish level of fat). Steers fed on grass or our own hay - goodness knows how fat they'd be if we fed them grain or concentrates.

Distribution of cuts - 20% roasts, 14% steaks, 31% stew/casserole, 22% mince, rest is turned into sausages. We sell most of the meat in boxes locally, some gets sent by our butcher via his courier to customers in London & the SE of England. And we get to keep some for ourselves.


Sue

[SallyintNorth]

Brilliant, Sue.   

For comparison, my nearly-30-month Jersey heifer (also outdoor-reared, grass-fed - and the carcase hung for 19 days) delivered approx. 116kgs butchered meat.  (From deadweight 193kgs, conformation -O3.)  Very lean, lightly marbled - and absolutely delicious. 

So the Shetlands give about half as much meat again as the Jersey.  (There will be more fat on the Shetland, of course, but fat doesn't weigh much )  My butcher charged £300, including packing up the boxes (but not the packaging itself.) 

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