[heyhay1984]

I've done a little search and I can see that those of you who keep Kune Kunes feed grass nuts as part of your pigs' diet but does anyone feed them to bigger pigs? I have access to grass nuts in bulk (can't say the same for sow nuts, unfortunately!) so wondered if they could be used as part of the ration for weaners? What about breeding sows?

I'm thinking 20-25% replacement at most if it's viable and sensible, obviously introduced slowly but would be a cost-saver when compared with sow and weaner pellets and would mean less trips to replace my bagged pig food stocks!

[Buffy the eggs layer]

They work for kunes as kunes do well on a high forage low protein diet. I put a copy of a report on a previous thread which gives the breakdown of nutritional needs of commercial pigs based on Dry matter, digestible and non digestible fibre etc


If you have a look at it you can get a feel for what proportion of your pigs feed could be made up of grass pellets and what else they would need to complement it. I realise that you probably keep a larger rare breed rather than a modern commercial breed but they would still be more likely to have nutritional demands which are closer to those of commercials in terms of fibre than they would have to kunes though I wouldn't expect the protein need to be quite as high as say commercial landrace.


The other thing to consider though is what you are feeding for as in weaning, growing, finishing, flushing, gestating, lactating etc as nutritional demands change throughout.


Or you could just keep kunes lol! 

[heyhay1984]

I must admit if we'd got more ground I'd be partial to a Kune or two!

I see what you mean about fibre levels (can't find the thread off hand but will keep looking as sounds right up my street), could be a bit of a waste of a meal almost. However I think they grass nuts are about 16% protein so might do well for the finishers and wouldn't hurt as a top-up food/boredom breaker for them all when the ground's too wet/frozen/rock hard to do much rooting. I scatter feed the sow pellets where possible but I know some get wasted, I might feel a bit less sore about it if it's 'just' grass nuts disappearing! We have the grass nuts on site anyway so I can have a play around with them once we've got pigs here again.

Of course, I'm assuming they'll even like to eat them, I've had horses turn their noses up at them occasionally! Funny things!

I shall have a proper look for the info you shared, thanks for alerting me to it 

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Here's the link Heyhey


http://www.britishpigs.org.uk/Newcastle_handbook_of_raw_materials.pdf


Pigs eat most things so I expect that they would eat them. We have a manufacturer of them in the next village but they cost me the same as a bag of sow pellets from the mill up the road so I just stick to pellets, grass, hay and carrots for my kunes.   

[Marches Farmer]

Things to consider could include the age of the pigs - weaners and growers need to grow frame first then pad it out - and the availability of copper which pigs need.  Are you feeding on slabs or in troughs?  Stopping waste may be a good first port of call in reducing the feed bill.

[harmony]

Pigs are omnivores given a choice and in the wild would eat a variety of feed stuffs. They also require a number of other elements that all animals require but at different levels. The point of a balanced bagged feed is that it meets the requirements as far as is possible.


Comparing the protein level of one feed to another ie sow nuts, finisher and grass nuts is not reliable. It is the type of protein and the digestibility of it that is important.


Kune's are graziers and grow slowly so grass nuts might well be sufficient but I don't know anyone who fattens pigs generally on grass.


My pigs will happily pinch chicken feed if they get the chance but they don't touch horse food. I know horses that won't touch grass nuts.


At the end of the day you can supplement commercial feed feeds or make up your own ration but then you will be upsetting the balance of your balanced feed so swapping like for like weight will mean your pig takes longer to finish and if you work out the cost overall you probably saved nothing and gave yourself more work.


Also the carcase quality won't be as good but then most smallholders maybe don't worry about that too much.


If there was a cheap alternative that did the job we'd already be doing it.

[heyhay1984]

If there was a cheap alternative that did the job we'd already be doing it.

This is an excellent point- looks like the grass nuts will be better as a treat or boredom breaker than a part of their meals. We've always fed pigs just sow and weaner pellets supplemented with horse carrots and windfalls etc and done well from it so would be daft to deviate, I guess!

We feed in feed bowls as we only have a couple of pigs at a time and means can see who's getting want, or scatter feed when the ground's dry for a bit of variety. Might explore a slab though as they do tip the bowls over when they argue about which one they want!

Thanks all for the input, always appreciate your words of sense! 

[Buffy the eggs layer]

Hey


    I feed mine using broad based plastic dog bowls as young kunes are too small for a normal trough. I have also introduced adult kunes to these which works well as the size of them means the pigs can guard their meal from other pigs and although the adult pigs tip them as they get to the last dregs they dont flip them over.


  They are easy to clean and the very big ones cost about £1 each. I find it results in a very calm feeding routine for my pigs as it reduces competition and stress at feeding. Everyone knows the routine and where they go for their dish. They get thrown carrots while they are eating so once they have finished their nuts they just head off for those rather than trying to steal each others dinner. Having said that they are kunes which are a joy to manage compared to many other more typically" pig like" breeds.


If you are still thinking of adding the grass nuts my suggestion would be to have a look at the nutritional breakdown and see how they could compliment your current feeding regime. My breed convert feed into growth to maximum effect for about the first 4 months after which they still have lots of growing to do but the growth rate slows and they begin to lay down fat so for me, finishing a kune for butchering can often be more about trimming down than the traditional approach of fattening up lol


So finishing on grass in summer or grass pellets in winter would work for many kunes. Before the mass production of commercial pigs in the 70's however people were raising outdoor or back yard pigs on a range of foodstuffs from school canteen waste to kitchen scraps. As feeding foodstuffs is now banned most producers are left with little alternatives than to feed concentrates. Not all smallholders feed their pigs that way though, but those who feed alternatives to concentrates probably would admit it on this forum.


The breed I keep survived by grubbing around Maori villages scavenging for bits of leftovers which has resulted in a breed that stores fat well in order to survive on slim pickings and through hard times. The Maoris didnt put too much time into considering the protein content or digestible fibre of what they made available to the pigs lol. Prior to commercial, fast growing, super lean, tasteless pig production that we have today the traditional rare breeds did well on a scant diet of available bits and bobs.


If the grass nuts available near me were cheaper than the sow nuts I would certainly use them to replace grazing in winter.  I still think you should consider a trio of kunes next time. Tee hee  [size=78%]  [/size]

[harmony]

Hey

So finishing on grass in summer or grass pellets in winter would work for many kunes. Before the mass production of commercial pigs in the 70's however people were raising outdoor or back yard pigs on a range of foodstuffs from school canteen waste to kitchen scraps. As feeding foodstuffs is now banned most producers are left with little alternatives than to feed concentrates. Not all smallholders feed their pigs that way though, but those who feed alternatives to concentrates probably would admit it on this forum.


The breed I keep survived by grubbing around Maori villages scavenging for bits of leftovers which has resulted in a breed that stores fat well in order to survive on slim pickings and through hard times. The Maoris didnt put too much time into considering the protein content or digestible fibre of what they made available to the pigs lol. Prior to commercial, fast growing, super lean, tasteless pig production that we have today the traditional rare breeds did well on a scant diet of available bits and bobs.


If the grass nuts available near me were cheaper than the sow nuts I would certainly use them to replace grazing in winter.  I still think you should consider a trio of kunes next time. Tee hee  [size=78%]  [/size]

When backyard pigs were fed scraps that would have been all kitchen scraps including meat and no doubt Kune's also ate scavanged meat too from around the villages. Backyard pigs were finished slowly and were fatty. The fat was important to people's diet and large pigs fed large families. Most backyard pigs lived in small stys with no access to grass.


You don't have to feed ready made compounds, you can mix your own if you have access to cereals and add the minerals.


My personal view of pigs other than kune's is grass nuts is not an alternative/viable feed for them. Kune's I have no experience of. And whilst many of you rave about them, many don't.


Keep what you like and what you like to eat and each to their own. If someone has used grass nuts to supplement or fatten then please tell us your tale.