NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Planning eek  (Read 3424 times)

HelenKaren

  • Joined Dec 2015
Planning eek
« on: December 29, 2015, 10:29:36 pm »
Hi everyone
Hoping I can get some help as I'm a beginner at this. I bought a field 18 months ago registered as agricultural land. My dream is to have a few sheep and maybe a goat and grow a few bits to start with and then build up when confident. To fund this I planned to rent out a vintage shepherds hut.  My dream was also to bring the meadow back to its natural state reintroducing bugs and butterflies and natural grasses. So, off to planning I go and with the help of a consultant, and £1000 worse off, planning for renting out the hut is refused because of it being on a flood plain. This is the reason I chose a shepherds hut. It's in wheels and can quickly be moved if flooding should occur! It has been suggested by a friend that if I was to register as a small holding I could maybe get round this. Any thoughts? My alternative is to sell and leave it as a dumping ground. Many many thanks for any help in advance. Helen.
Voss Electric Fence

bungalow Bill

  • Joined Dec 2015
  • Llanynghenedl, Anglesey
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2016, 05:01:51 am »
Hello Helen and welcome to TAS
I am also a new member with very little experience of small holding. However, I am surprised that even with my lack of knowledge I can offer advice. I have had endless problems with planners who seem to lack all vestiges of common sense. Try digging a large hole say 4m deep, ask the planners to come and inspect it, wait until they are at the bottom, then quickly back fill it. Can't help with the chicken though.

Isn't this a great site for helpful advice.

Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 08:07:30 pm »
Most small campsites operate under the '28-day' rules, under 'permitted development' rights allowing land to be used without planning permission 'for any purpose for not more than 28 days in total in any calendar year...and the provision on land of any moveable structures [tents] for the purposes of the permitted use'.

But this is for tents only and not caravans - whether a shepherds hut is a caravan when you take the wheels off and peg it to the floor or not - dont know ;)

Maybe do a tipi or a yurt? Tipi is easier to take down when its empty - so your not using up your valuable 28 days.

To be honest how are they going to check its 28 days - one good thing to mention is that - just look up all your local campsites and check if they have licences - most the small ones wont and will be operating under permitted development or have yurts and tipis with no planning for permanant structures.  Its alway worth bringing up a long list of other sites within the county that are doing exactly the same as you with no trouble.

Failing that you could look at joining the caravan and camping club - its alot more costly as they expect a level of standard and animeties onsite - but by being a member you dont need to ask the council for anything as they are so old and established they runs the planning.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 09:15:41 pm »
Get round what? You bought an agricultural field and applied for a business use.


We had a small allotment in  our village that was sold some years ago. Chap bought it and applied for a green house and hen hut. Not a problem. Never seen sight of either but he does have a large garden shed hidden behind panel fencing. Called there the other day. He was just stoking his log burner so he could put his feet up on his settee before he popped into the adjacent room to make some tea. What he does in the other room I'm not sure, door was shut!


As Bazzais says you could look at permitted development but I doubt 28 days would make you any money to pay for shepherds hut let alone help towards your animals.


Or you could look at the Caravan Club or Caravan and Camping Club permissions but they still go before planning although the clubs do all this for you. The Planning Authority deal with the application and it does not go to parish councils for comment although a planning notice will go up and comments and objections can be made. If it is a flood plain I doubt it would be allowed either. I think the minimum is a five site for caravans and people expect hard stand, toilet facilities, even if to empty a chemical loo, water and somewhere to put rubbish.


I'm sorry to sound unsympathetic.


Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 09:40:12 pm »
I think the MAXIMUM for a caravan site that does not require planning permission is for 5 vans, not staying for longer than 28 days.

I seem to recall that you need at least 1/2 acre plus fresh potable water and facilities for emtying chemical toilets as a minimum. I guess hard standing would be a good idea and if you have electric hook-ups, you can charge extra.

Full occupancy for six months of the year at £10 a night will gross £9k. I plucked the £10 a night out of the air. You'd probably also be able to sell produce to caravanners.

I take it you're not seeking PP to build a house?

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 10:03:56 pm »
The maximum isn't five, a site near us has nine. It is not correct that planning isn't needed, it is just that a different system exists between the Caravan Club, The Camping and Caravan Club and planning. The applications are all lodged with planning via the clubs and dealt with in house rather than going out to consultation. A planning notice goes up. Our Parish Council objected to a proposed site on access grounds and it was withdrawn. The sites are looked at quite carefully by the clubs and not all are even put through if there are issues.


Anyone staying at the CC or C&C site are supposed to be members of the club.


Under the 28 day rule you can have as many caravans as you want, our local school does this on their playing fields, weekends and school holidays but they have to be there for a common event such as a club rally, a fund raiser, scouts weekend etc.


Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 08:48:18 am »
From the Caravan Club website

"A Certificated Location is a 5-van site for the exclusive use of Caravan Club members. Each year we issue a certificate to those sites that continue to meet our standards and for this reason we call them Certificated Locations (or CL's).
They are covered by Acts of Parliament and need no site licence or formal planning permission. They can be on a farm or smallholding, at a pub or golf course, even on land attached to your house. We currently have just under 2,500 CL's; they are very popular with members and we are dedicated to expanding our network. New applications from prospective CL owners are always welcome.
 What are the advantages of becoming a CL? If you have a minimum of half an acre of land spare and can fulfil some simple requirements you could:
 
  • Make some additional income from an otherwise unused plot of land
  • Set and retain all the income from pitch fees - our members will pay on average £10 - £15 per night depending on the location and facilities available
  • Planning permission is not required
  • Free listing on the Caravan Club website and in the Sites Directory and Handbook
  • Attract a new market for your produce or facilities such a golf or fishing
  • Have the opportunity to meet fresh faces and make new friends"

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2016, 09:37:31 am »
I am not disagreeing with you Rosemary. They don't go through the normal planning process but they still go to the planning authority for comment. And if this is a flood plain and it has already been turned down under formal planning then I would expect that to be highlighted. The Clubs are also quite thorough in their certification.








bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2016, 09:37:55 pm »
Planning law is a game, you need power-ups to get round them, good friends in high places or a degree in bending talk to get things done.

Or you believe in what you can do - do it - and tread lightly until it happens.

Do you have a driveway you can put the shepherds hut in when not in use?

If I were you - I'd just do it and quote permitted development.

As for 28 days - yes its short - but only half of what most people have to earn a years income in similar situations.

Its only a few months a year that people with money come and pay for sharing our space. 

It does my head in that there is so much restriction for these micro industries.

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2016, 09:39:53 pm »
They would be happy to see your house sold as a holiday house - but they wont let someone living their  earn the income to pay and stay and be part of the community - its just wierd.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2016, 10:53:21 am »
Planning law is a game, you need power-ups to get round them, good friends in high places or a degree in bending talk to get things done.

Or you believe in what you can do - do it - and tread lightly until it happens.

Do you have a driveway you can put the shepherds hut in when not in use?

If I were you - I'd just do it and quote permitted development.

As for 28 days - yes its short - but only half of what most people have to earn a years income in similar situations.

Its only a few months a year that people with money come and pay for sharing our space. 

It does my head in that there is so much restriction for these micro industries.


People are always complaining about planning, usually because they can't do what they want. Of course you can always do what you want until someone stops you. I don't always agree with decisions but I'd rather see planning policies than none at all. Life is full of rules and policies.

bazzais

  • Joined Jan 2010
    • Allt Y Coed Farm and Campsite
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2016, 06:08:13 pm »
I totally agree.

goosepimple

  • Joined May 2010
  • nr Lauder, Scottish Borders
Re: Planning eek
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 09:20:39 am »
Hi HK
We have a shepherd's hut type of thing on stilts - it's called the Stilt House - it's on telegraph poles and there's a stair on the end to get up to it, it's above our mill pond -  I use it as a studio but people used to use it (before our time here) as a glamping experience (before that even existed).  There's a loo with shower on the end of another building here that they used for washing albeit they have a river one side and the mill pond the other.  It's never had planning permission but it's been here for about 15 years I believe and was rented out for a lot of that time.  It's one of about 5 buildings here that are similar, no one can see them so they've all been here for years without complaint, people renting them out for holidays.  Sorry my pics don't seem to load up these days since I got a fancy camera and not sure how to reduce them yet (need 12 year old boy for that not here at the moment).
registered soay, castlemilk moorit  and north ronaldsay sheep, pygmy goats, steinbacher geese, muscovy ducks, various hens, lots of visiting mallards, a naughty border collie, a puss and a couple of guinea pigs

 

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