[OGDerpette]

I'm studying agriculture at my local college (Arbroath, Scotland) and have been talking to my livestock lecturer about "what I want to do in the future" now - I want to be a shepherd. I want to be a hill shepherd, with a trusty dog (or 9!) and know every sheep by name etc  sound naiive? Yep! However I really do want to be a shepherd, I like sheep and even more so dogs, and I love the challenge of the outdoors. I can NEVER get a desk job and I dream of being a shepherd and all the misery that entails! I'm getting my drivers licence and I'll be doing as much lambing as I can in the new year.. Now all I need is the dog! I have two dogs, one border collie (well about 90% or so!) and one border collie cross. I do agility, flyball, obedience and trick training with them. We got the "pure collie" at 5 months, never had any true exercise,  barely ever let out of the house and not trained at all! He had and still has his issues, but now at 10 months I can genuinely say he's a pleasure to own! I don't know if he could be a sheepdog, and even if he could - where would I start!? I know there are courses for training up your dog but I don't think I'd even know how to use the whistle! I feel like it's quite an exclusive... community(?) and if your dad wasn't a shepherd then neither will you. I grew up on a farm (rented) and spent all my days outdoors, now we've moved to the city and my heart yearns back for fresh air and no people! I still go to the Alyth Agricultural show every year and I chat breifly to the people who breed sheep etc but I know no one who could guide me. I'd REALLY apriciate anyone from central/east scotland who knows where I could gain some basic skills before I go on to either train my dog or buy a started one. I know I sound dumb and naiive but I know what I want to do in life and its not a desk job! I don't want live my life on facebook and twitter (as would probably be normal for my age!)I want to spend my days working hard in the rain, cold and snow. I know my dream won't become a reality any time soon and I know i'll need experience and thats why I'm going to be getting experience with sheep during lambing season and doing my agriculture course but dont know where to go in the "shepherding" side of things.

As you can see my border collie would have no clue what to do either so do you think if he had the drive to work sheep it would be best for me to train him up once I had trained myself? OR should I buy a started/partly trained/trained sheepdog and learn with a dog that already knows the basics?

Please dont laugh at me, and if you do dont call me names If anyone can give me any advice on any of this - I would be incredibly grateful! Many thanks - one weird Teenager! 

[Fleecewife]

Hi OGD

Sorry but I know nothing about working sheepdogs, although I keep sheep.  Our terrier helps round them up, so not exactly typical.

Please don't think of yourself as naïve - it's great to hear of someone who knows exactly what he/she wants in life, and goes out to get it.  The world would be such a boring place if we were all the same.  I too grew up on a farm then had to live in cities and on military bases for years.  I couldn't wait to get back to the country and animals, and here I am.  You'll get there too, with that determination.

I love the pic of your border collie - is he the dog with two tails?

There are loads of folk on here who keep sheep, and many of them use sheepdogs.  We're also nice, and don't call people names, so you've come to the right place.  I'm sure someone who knows what they're about with dogs and sheep will be along shortly 

[OGDerpette]

thank you [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] ! That actually means a lot to me we're all a little weird in our own ways aren't we! Been watching sheepdog trials and have so far learned "come bye" and "away" but I'll be damned if I'll ever be able to remember which one's which - I know come by is clockwise c - c and away is anticlockwise a - a but i think that'll fall right out my head as soon as I see a sheep!  I still struggle with my lefts and rights!!! haha. Cooper (the one in the picture) is a lovely lad but I don't know how suitable he'll be as a sheepdog considering half an hour ago he peed on the floor because he got a fright from my cat  gotta love him! Attaching a pic of him and my other collie cross! Would love to see how a jack russel rounds up sheep, but if any small dogs gonna do it its going to be a jack russel! I love them, every one i've met has been a real character!

Thanks again!

[Sbom]

Comebye - Clockwise. CC
Away - Anti clockwise. AA

We'd welcome help at lambing time but Staffordshire is probably to far!

Good luck

[Womble]

Please don't think of yourself as naïve - it's great to hear of someone who knows exactly what he/she wants in life, and goes out to get it. ..............   You'll get there too, with that determination.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

You have a plan. You've identified your next steps (get a driving license, get lambing experience), you're aware it's not going to be a bed of roses......

Frankly I wish I'd had half your passion and focus when I was your age - who knows where I would be now if that had been the case? 

I think you need to try and find an experienced shepherd who will take you on as their apprentice. That may not be easy, but if you keep hanging about in the right circles, and keep gaining experience and ability, I'm totally sure the right opportunity will come up  .

[Jukes Mum]

No advice, but with passion like that you'll go a long way x

[fsmnutter]

Keep doing lots of lambing, and offer the farms you lamb on to come back and help whenever they're gathering, eg shearing, vaccinating, weaning lambs.
Depends what course you are doing as to who you meet and what you learn, I did block release nvq in mixed farming at oatridge, so spent about 10 months living and working on the beef and sheep farm placement. You'll pick up so much day to day, and working a well trained dog is a joy.
 You will get to be a shepherd keeping on with that can do attitude!
As for training dogs, I'm not really conventional! Many shepherds will use a trained or part trained dog to teach a new one, so may be possible to get them to help you train, or there are courses to train you and dog together, or the dog alone. I bought a collie bitch pup with the drive to herd and too much energy for her older owners. I have not done as much "training" as I had hoped with her as our rented field is a littlte awkward to set up for training. However, she learns something every time we work our small flock of sheep. She is a strong dog, which really helps with our stubborn goats, and due to training her a bit haphazard, she prefers to drive sheep than fetch them. We crossed her with a kelpie for one litter as she's a lady's dog and my other half fancied a dog of his own. We kept the most chilled out of the litter and at 11 months old he has some fantastic potential too. He's more laid back, doesn't get so close to our flighty hebrideans, and his instinct to get behind the sheep to fetch them is fab!
If your dogs have any interest in rounding things up (our first collie pup, tragically killed by a land rover, used to round up a football and sit with it between his paws!) they should be trainable to herd sheep.
Good luck, and have fun doing what you want to do!

[devonlady]

Good luck with your dreams! Can I point out that no dog needs "proper" exercise until it is at least six months old. Young joints need to mature to avoid arthritis in later life. They do, though, need gentle training and socialising.
We have a pug who is useful with the sheep!!

[Marches Farmer]

See if you can get hold of a copy of an old book called The Farmer's Dog by John Homes.  There are several train-your-sheepdog books (Derek Scrimgeour's springs to mind) but some of them seem overly complicated to me. The National Sheep Association has a register of sheep farmers wanting lambing help.  Try Goggling "sheepdog trainers" - if there's one in your area you could maybe take your dog along for assessment.  I've seen an Old English Sheepdog that had never seen a sheep in its life moving sheep competently to right and left in just one session, so you never know.  One of ours was a hooligan when we got him but we left him with Alison Smith (Worcestershire) for a month and he's now very good.  Shepherding is a grand life, in my opinion, and if you have the calling nothing else will do!

[OGDerpette]

[member=25947]Sbom[/member]

If I have my driving licence by then I'll certainly consider it! Would probably spend more time driving than helping but advice and experience are invaluable! I'll get my driving licence end of January the earliest so it also depends when you'll be lambing. I will also be doing a lambing course as an additional part of collage but not sure when thats going to be yet either! Thanks again!

[OGDerpette]

Thank you [member=2128]Womble[/member] !!!

That really means a lot! I'll keep at college and find work where I can until I make the right connections

Thanks again!!!

[OGDerpette]

[member=26799]fsmnutter[/member] Thank you!

The college course I'm on is general agriculture and unfortunately has no placements but it is useful for learning the basics of a lot of things which will hopefully make it easier finding work and making the right connections. I'm really trying my best to learn everything I can at college (not just livestock related) so I'll be hire able. I can drive a tractor and trailer (well as long as I dont have to reverse with the trailer but practice makes perfect!) and I know the basics of soil types, crop farming, evaluation of feed etc and I can use a mini digger and by the end of the course i'll have learned even more so even if a farm isn't exclusively livestock I'll be HOPEFULLY worth hiring!!! Then I'll be able to work my way to where I want to be I think Cooper could be a herding dog but I have a feeling he might be a bit of a coward, its so hard to tell though without having sheep (which I dont). Hopefully through lambing I'll make connections with someone that will be able to teach me It would be great being able to work a trained sheepdog even breifly to "get the hang of it" and then I'd know what the end goal is For now I'll buy a book or maybe a DVD which I can study

Thank you very much!

[OGDerpette]

[member=89885]devonlady[/member]
Thank you! It wasn't that he wasn't getting exersice that was the problem, it was the fact that he was never really let out the house, wasn't even house trained etc  but thats all fine now he's learned well and he loves to please! I love pugs but I dont know if a farmer will take me too seriously if i say I'm going to use one on his sheep!

[OGDerpette]

[member=27063]Marches Farmer[/member] have been looking at http://www.nethhillbordercollies.co.uk/index.php/training/sheepdog-handler-training.html which are reasonable close and reasonably priced too so will get him evaluated and then I'll know whether I will focus on training him or need another dog. Will also get some books and maybe also a DVD so that I can learn more about the fundamentals of shepherding Thank you so much! Its really encouraging to hear from everyone that I'm not crazy for wanting my dream

[SallyintNorth]

If you were in Cumbria or SW Scotland, I would be pointing you in the direction of Derek Scrimgeour, who gives clinics near Wigton (between Carlisle and Penrith) and is tremendous at finding out what your dog can do, and helping you discover what you can do.

He goes all over the world teaching all kinds of people to work collies and I know of several he's taught as adults who now perform very creditably at trials, despite having had no prior experience. 

And another of his students came to it as an adult too, and not a young one either, and now uses her collie dogs on her own and her other half's sheep.  The younger dog I've trained myself with a bit of help from Derek to 'start' her.  (Yes, it's me  )

So, first off, yes you will be able to do it.  Anyone who has enough determination and some empathy with dogs is going to be able to do it.

As you can see my border collie would have no clue what to do either so do you think if he had the drive to work sheep it would be best for me to train him up once I had trained myself? OR should I buy a started/partly trained/trained sheepdog and learn with a dog that already knows the basics?

A collie that has work in it actually will know what to do.  Derek's style of training, which I like very much, is to get the dog doing its natural behaviours around the sheep, then 'put a word on it'.  So he'll get the dog running around the sheep, and as it's going anticlockwise he'll say, "'Waaayyy".  He'll then shift his body so the sheep move, causing the dog to change direction, and as the dog changes, he'll say, "Byyyyeee".  Pretty soon, the dog associates the word with the action and you can start to ask for the action with the word.  Simples.

Of course, Derek has Xty years of experience of sheep and collie dogs, and knows precisely what to do with his body to make the sheep move so and the dog move so. 

Oh, and one of his came-to-it-as-an-adult has performed well in nursery trials with rescue collies that didn't seem to have work in them - so it can also be done, though it's a lot more work and probably not as much fun for the collie, with dogs that don't naturally work, too.

I went off to get the link to Derek's website, and I see you've had some recommendations for trainers nearer to you.  Best of luck!