[Jackie]

I have just found out that the vet I used to use for the hip x-rrays for my dogs has retired (Burton on Trent)  and as Im out of the loop as regards showing I don't know a vet that knows how to x-ray and position the dogs properly.

The breeder I bought the pups from recommends a vet in Cheshire but Id quite like one a bit more local if anyone knows one near Leicestershire that 'showers' use?

[doganjo]

Jackie, why not contact one of the Goldie breed clubs?

[Jackie]

Good idea Annie. 

Um I wonder why I didnt think of that!!  DUH! Blonde moment

[doganjo]

Well, you see, I am a 'silver surfer'  so have my wits all about me

[onnyview]

Without wanting to sound silly, why are you finding it difficult to find a vet that can position the hips? If it's for the BVA hip store any vet should be able to hip score for you. You shouldn't need to travel miles for it.

[Jackie]

Because not every vet does it properly and its very important to get it right. We need low hip scores.

[onnyview]

But aren't there guidelines the vet has to follow regarding positioning? I can understand you getting miffed if they can't score it at the BVA because the exposure isn't right, markers being left off etc and you need to re xray the dog. But if the BVA can score it, it makes no difference how the vet has positioned the dog to what score you get. That's down to the BVA and the dog.

[doganjo]

Without wanting to sound silly, why are you finding it difficult to find a vet that can position the hips? If it's for the BVA hip store any vet should be able to hip score for you. You shouldn't need to travel miles for it.

That actually is total rubbish.  Vets are NOT trained to position dogs for specialist x-rays, they are trained to do normal run of the mill x-rays for their own diagnosing purposes.  The BVA/HD scheme testing is very sensitive and the dogs need to be laid so that the hips are exactly level.  There are only a few vets that are capable of positioning the dog correctly and have the experience in taking these specialised x-rays. A lot depends on the correct score being assessed.  It can make the difference between a keeping a dog for breeding and not. 
And another thing - many people breed dogs without a thought as to their suitability in health, inherited diseases, or pedigree compatibility.  There would be fewer strays if the Government and the Kennel Club took a hand in controlling this.  JMHO

AND fewer designer mongrels!

[onnyview]

Without wanting to sound silly, why are you finding it difficult to find a vet that can position the hips? If it's for the BVA hip store any vet should be able to hip score for you. You shouldn't need to travel miles for it.

That actually is total rubbish.  Vets are NOT trained to position dogs for specialist x-rays, they are trained to do normal run of the mill x-rays for their own diagnosing purposes.  The BVA/HD scheme testing is very sensitive and the dogs need to be laid so that the hips are exactly level.  There are only a few vets that are capable of positioning the dog correctly and have the experience in taking these specialised x-rays. A lot depends on the correct score being assessed.  It can make the difference between a keeping a dog for breeding and not. 
And another thing - many people breed dogs without a thought as to their suitability in health, inherited diseases, or pedigree compatibility.  There would be fewer strays if the Government and the Kennel Club took a hand in controlling this.  JMHO

AND fewer designer mongrels!

I agree entirely that many people breed dogs without a thought to their suitability in health and inherited diseases. I didn't want this to become a slanging match, but feel you must be made aware of the current situation. Taking a hip score for the BVA HD scheme is NOT a specialist procedure. It is not sensitive, no more than any other radiograph. Registered Veterinary Nurses are entirely capable and entitled to position for such xrays, indeed it is one of the possible practicals they can be tested on in their examinations. I do however agree that not every vet is entirely the same as another. Some may be better than others. What I was trying to say in my original comment is that Jackie shouldn't need to travel miles for such a procedure. I still maintain that 99% of vets should be able to produce an xray that can be assessed by the BVA/HD panel.
If the xrays are not up to scratch with positioning/developing the BVA/HD panel cannot and will not assess the radiographs and they are returned to the vet asking for resubmission.

[Jackie]

Onyview I have been around the show ring on and off for over 30 years and have had my bitches hip scored for as long as the scoring has been around (1983) and I KNOW that not all vets can do this properly.
It is important that the bitches are placed properly for the x--ray so that the BVA panel can see everything they need to in under 5 minutes.
A bad x-ray means I have to rehome my breeding bitches because it invairably means a bad score.

BTW Annie has probably been around the show ring longer than I have and certainly has as much, if not more, experience of BVA hip scoring than I have and trust me neither of us would take our dogs to a vet practice that isnt experienced, and gets, good scores. Neither would any serious show dog owner.

Now as you are trying to teach your granny to suck eggs please tell us your experience in this.

[sandy]

Surly the hip score is also dependant on the panel that score the results...maybe some have very different views or even eyesight ...Oh better not go on, I am very cynical and believe you can get what you want with the correct amout of ££££££'s

[Lynda]

Having recently had x-rays returned from the panel as being of insufficient quality to score, I'd suggest that not all vets are capable of this proedure  Now my youngster needs to go through a second anaesthetic 

Lynda

[Jackie]

Yes Sandy it does depend on the panel too.

 I remember about 15 years ago the summer scores were generally higher than the winter scores because different panels scored differently.

I actually think that as the name of the vets is on the paperwork the BVA panel can see that the owner is a serious dog person who has gone out of their way to get things right by going to a recognised hip vet, so that goes in our favour too. The dogs name or owners name isnt on the plate.

Oh Lynda Im sorry to hear that. All that waiting and hoping and having to go through it all again. 

[doganjo]

I also have had the experience of having to have a dog re-x-rayed under a second anaesthetic.  I am firmly of the opinion that the laying out for HD x-ray is a specialist job.  I will require an x-ray for my pup in about 7/8 months time and will be asking around for an experienced vet regardless of my close association with my own one, particularly with his help with Freckles.
As to the panels, I do not believe there is that much variation.  These people are also very experienced, and fully qualified, but there are so many plates to look at that they do not have long to examine each one, so the plate MUST be first class, and the dog laid correctly.

[onnyview]

Onyview I have been around the show ring on and off for over 30 years and have had my bitches hip scored for as long as the scoring has been around (1983) and I KNOW that not all vets can do this properly.
It is important that the bitches are placed properly for the x--ray so that the BVA panel can see everything they need to in under 5 minutes.
A bad x-ray means I have to rehome my breeding bitches because it invairably means a bad score.

BTW Annie has probably been around the show ring longer than I have and certainly has as much, if not more, experience of BVA hip scoring than I have and trust me neither of us would take our dogs to a vet practice that isnt experienced, and gets, good scores. Neither would any serious show dog owner.

Now as you are trying to teach your granny to suck eggs please tell us your experience in this.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, as you are entitled to use whatever vet you wish- and travel miles to that vet. The quote I responded to was that "very few vets can position the xray correctly"- which I disagree with. I still maintain that the majority of vets can and do take and position xrays good enough to be scored by the BVA/HD panel. There are and always will be exceptions to this rule (Lynda I am very sorry to hear your xrays were returned.) But are they not the minority?
Under the direction of a vet, RVN's can position an animal for this procedure, so it is not a specialist procedure outside of a veterinary practice. If you disagree with the BVA panels score, you can appeal. Change vet. It should not mean "a bad x-ray means I have to rehome my breeding bitches because it invairably means a bad score."  Each dog is scored and compared against a mean score for that breed and a range is given too. A bad score is a bad score. JMHO
 
But, as the daughter of a championship show judge and a Registered Veterinary Nurse of 12 years I know how breeders can be.