[MiMi]

Hello,

My names Alison. My partner and I are planning to get a smallholding in a couple of years and we would love to have some advice, re prices and things to think about as you first set up.

We're trying to be very practical, reading books and looking online etc and our current garden is full of vegetables as we practise for our bigger ideals. The problem we're having though is trying to figure out how much land we are going to need for what we want and also prices of small holdings.

Can people reccomend how much land is needed to be self suffcient. We think we've figured out need between 3-5 acres. In other peoples experience, how have you found this much land? What livestock do you keep? Do you grow enough produce? How much land do you devote to different things? Have you had any problems with rotation?

Secondly, can people reccomend estate agents/ websites so we can start building on a price to save for. We want to stay in the Cambridgeshire area because of jobs, but if we have to relocate then Yorkshire, Devon, Sussex of Norfolk/ Suffolk are possibilities we are also considering.

We'd be really greatful for any advice and I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

Thank you 

[Roxy]

Welcome to the forum!!

Its  sensible to do your homework first, and see exactly what you can afford.

We are just looking to relocate - and we live in a very expensive area, smallholding and landwise.  I have found Rural Scene have some good properties.  I have noticed that Cambridge houses with land, do seem a lot cheaper than those round here, bt obviously I have only looked on Rural Scene. May  be worth a look.

As to aceage, it depends what you want to do - and whether you would want to stay small or expand.  I think a house and just 3 acres say, would come much cheaper than one with bigger acreage.  And it would also be easier to manage.

Good luck with your plans!

[Rosemary]

Hi and welcome. Forget about being self-sufficient. For most it's not realistic - so you want to give up wine and chocolate and knit your own knickers? Probably not.

So you will need a cash income - that can either come from the smallholding or from one or both of you continuing to work full or part-time - or some combination thereof. Start by deciding how much cash income you need - and be realistic. Starving in a garret may seem attractive to some - but in the long dark days of winter, a week in the sun might prove very attractive and Thomas Cook don't barter for eggs.

The Farm Management Handbook from the Scottish Agricultural Colleges www.sac.ac.uk is useful as it gives gross margins for lots of agricultural enterprises. Some are depressingly low.

I suggest you buy as much land as you can afford - you can always let it to another farmer or for horse grazing until you decide what to do with it, but if you buy too little you have to relocate t expand. Three acres, IMHO, will put you in competition with the equestrian market, which can be very pricey. Sometimes you can get a small farm for the same money because the acreage puts folk off.

Just my opinion, of course 

[Hilarysmum]

We have 11 acres aprox. running 14 pigs and 3 sheep, a few hens, and really its not enough.

[Hermit]

I agree to get as much land as you can afford, you can be self sufficient in meat, veg, eggs and milk and some booze if you have some good hedgerows! But those vets bills, rates,leccy bills cannot be paid in kind.You do need an income. The further north you go the cheaper property is I think. We sold a 5 bed bungalow for more than it was worth   in W. Yorks and bought a 40 acre croft for £40 thousand pounds. So downsizing is a great advantage.
When you get your land it will never be enough as you will want to expand into making hay, growing fodder crops etc so buy for the future.
Also plan your land well, dont rush into what goes where and get too much stock or else you will end up with a disorganised quagmire.Take things a step at a time so you can sit back and correct things before they get out of hand.Dont think "they are doing that so I want to", know your limits.Start off with chooks and veg, then go onto larger stuff when you see how much time you 'really' have. Take it easy and enjoy. Good Luck Hermit

[Daisys Mum]

I would agree with Rosemary get as much land as you can, I have about 6 acres and at the moment it's not enough as I have nowhere to put last years ewe lambs to keep them away from the tup when I lose my extra rented grazing. My son says get rid of the horses they are useless but I love having them. I suppose if you want to be anywhere near self sufficient you have to be ruthless and plan ahead, I'm afraid I don't I am a sucker for a lame duck (horse).

[little blue]

hello and welcome

[Simon O]

Hi I am new too so welcome; Hermits advice sounds sensible and I am trying to take notice of these sensible pieces of advice. We are at the point of moving to 22 acres which was cheaper than some other smaller pieces of land. We realise that we will need to keep working at least parttime til pensions can kick in.

[doganjo]

Sometimes you can get a small farm for the same money because the acreage puts folk off.

Absolutely right - I've been looking for an extra bit of land and found that if I could sell my house (sits in an acre of garden)for what I paid for it I could get about 60 acres and a reasonable cottage!  Wish I'd looked on the rural estate agents before I saw this one 2 years ago.  I know the market has fallen but not to that extent.

[JulieS]

Hello and welcome from Devon 

I agree that you should get as much land as you can afford......You can never have enough.

[CameronS]

Welcome from fife 

[ballingall]

Hi and welcome,

Have to say I agree with what others have said, buy as much land as you can afford. We ended up with less land here than we had before, and I would love more (that said, not sure I would have time to deal with more!).

The one other thing I would say, is pay careful attention to the land. What type of soil is there, and what is the drainage like? What do the current owners use it for? Veg, grazing, crops? I never thought to think about that when we moved here, and part of me wishes I had given it more importance.


Beth

[Anke]

Hi, we stay in the Scottish Borders, have 9 acres and rent another 6 or so. Enough to do all the things I want, have sheep (about 20 odd), goats (3 and 3 kids), numerours chickens (meat and eggs) and we raise weaners over the summer. Still establishing large veg/fruit garden and have large polytunnel (very useful things). We don't run this as a business, and my OH works full time in Edinburgh. I do the smallholding and children. If you have more than 5 acres you would need to consider some machinery, we bought a tractor and topper, harrow and rotovator. Just means we don't have to get contractors for everything. Oh an dlook at fences when you look at property, very expensive to start from scratch/repair.

Also start with poultry and then move on to pigs (weaners for meat) and maybe sheep/goats. We did one species per year.

We are selfsufficient in meat, eggs, most veg (well you cant grow enough tatties to last the whole year...), some fruit, honey (3 hives in the field) and hopefully soon in milk (and some cheese, yoghurt etc). I also get all the wool (and much more than I need actually) from my sheep for my hobby (spinning, knitting, weaving...)

I have thought a lot about trying to run our holding as business, but having given up the rat race I just can't stand the thought of going back into it, and it would mean that I have to give up some parts of the holding to concentrate 100% on the business. I just think of it as our way of life, and don't miss holidays. Who would want to fly with the current restrictions etc in airports...

[Hilarysmum]

We do run as a pig business.  The paperwork takes more time than the animals.  The red tape is horrendous and no one here at least seems to know which bit of conflicting red tape is correct.  Nightmare.

[bamford6]

dunfrece and Galloway  and wales is the best pound for pound .i rent a small farm i would like my own .first thing to think local sale to sell stock when things get hard .as well as selling stock eggs chicks etc .as some members have said you need money from some where . i sold up from a gest house sea front and had a lot 20000 no mortgage 3 yeres ago nothink left . keep on spending on new things to make it work . iff i packet up i gess at the best 20 thousand stock .the rent would go up as iv built new buidings  planted trees made it nice . so think on im 53 at the moment and its very hard the wife and kids come second to the stock .they dont understand that . when it was very cold the hens had warm food as well as gas heating .so iff you had to get feed in you onley have 70 pound the stock would get 50 off that you would get 20 tuff live in the summer servive in the winter . im the same as you never done this before never had a job always done contracts for people and never had a mortgage .my pension i own my mum and dads house as well as 1 nere granton on spey .my out look go back on the road in a caravan and travel around uk