[Simon O]

The piece of land we are taking over has had 2 fields comprising several acres in total rented out to the neighbouring farmer on a 'seasonal basis' - for putting sheep and cattle on, or for haymaking - with no money changing hands, though the farmer seems to have done some jobs for the previous occupants in return. It sounds to me as if the farmer has been getting a good deal, though I understand this type of arrangement is not uncommon. I wonder how much money per acre land can be rented out for - this is in central belt scotland (not that I intend going looking for money, I don't want to fall out with my nighbour at an early stage - I was just wondering how much income I would be losing out on). I had thought that I would allow the farmer to continue this arrangement this year, but perhaps take the land back next year, depending on whether we feel ready to get our own beasts. We certainly have plenty to occupy us thie year anyway.

[Roxy]

Well, sometimes, it helps in neighbourly relations to let someone graze the land for free ......ie.  perhaps you will be in need of haymaking or something doing in the future, or help with your livestock or fencing, and if someone had used your land for free, they could return the favour in this way for you.

Round here, farmers have given up farming, and acres are lying empty.  One farmer I know puts cows here and there throughout the summer, and cuts fields to help people out, usually taking half the hay in payment, but sometimes they just tell him to take the lot!!

I have been renting 12 acres out from May to October for suckler cows.  He paid £300 and also mowed, turned and baled two hay fields for me without payment.

[bazzais]

Of course your neighbour will be annoyed as its going to be an end of a free ride.  Lets just hope that they realise you may need to make changes to the arrangement to one that suits you both.

The old owner of the land may have found that arrangement of a benefit of course as its kept the land in a good and usable condition for no work - but if you want to take on the land management responsibility, ie taking on the jobs that they have been doing like fencing, topping, fertilising etc etc you should make some money out of it for the work you put in by tacking out the land. 

Finding how much you should be charging in tack is hard, I presume its different everywhere according to land availability - I could never find out until I was made an offer.  So I guess the demand for your land dictates the price you can get and nobody will want to tack unmanaged and unlooked after land.


Also remember that if you dont have someone on the land to graze it and look after it, you will have to find someone to graze it, fence it and cut it at some point or if your not doing it yourself you will have to organise someone to come and do it as land gets out of control pretty fast without care.  If you have enough on your plate this year then I would let them continue until your ready to manage it - but best to let them know your intentions now rather than later.

Tell them straight - your busy this year, so they can continue to graze and hay in return for looking after the fields as they have done a great job.  But in the future you are considering getting your own animals and will need your own hay for them.  Ask them if in the future they would consider haying it in return for a few bales or ask them how much they would charge for them to do it for you.  Just re-assert yourself as the owner of the land.

Ta

Baz

[Hardfeather]

Learn to talk farming language before you enter into any dialog.

You will get lots of info in the farming press, such as 'The Scottish Farmer' on the sort of returns you can expect from your land. It's right at the start of the grass letting season just now, so local marts will be advertising availablity and, later, the prices made for grass this year.

If you are considering taking it back, you may wish to ask your neighbour if he'd take a cereal crop off it and undersow with a grass of your choice so that he gets the grain, but you would perhaps have the straw and a good start with your grass when you go to use it. If you choose not to graze it, you may want to sell the standing crop for hay/haylage which should sell well, particularly if it is a horse mix as there is always a market for good horse fodder. You'll have to take advice on whether to sow an early or late flowering mix, according to the length of your growing season and when it's likely to be cut/how many cuts you want. Remember grass needs fed/harrowed/rolled to give any great return, and that has a cost to the user of that land.

Contractors will cut and bale it for you at a price per bale which you can then mark up for sale. Once it's been baled and carted off, you may be able to let it over the early part of the winter for sheep keep. This will improve the sward as well as giving you a certain amount of free fert. Or you could graze it at the back end, then leave it over winter and get a good early bite for lambing ewes when it's most needed.

Bear in mind that as the costs of fuel and labour rise, so will the margin of profit narrow. Remember, too, that being a small place kind of puts you at a disadvantage with contractors when everyone is screaming to get things done and the weather forecast is poor.

[Simon O]

Aengus Baz and Roxy - thank you for taking the time to write these thoughtful replies - there is certainly a lot more to this than meets the eye at first and I will need to do a good bit of research. I am hoping that the farmer will be a good neighbour and that we can be of mutual assistance to one another. I will have to find a good moment to have a chat and I am sure that doing anything on the land myself this year would be pushing it, but I am definitely keen to take over the management myself in the future.