[langdon]

how is that you have to fatten your pigs differently for these two different
cuts.
up till now(first pigs) i allways thought once the pig was fattened and sent off
you have the both from the same carcass.
please explain as our freinds were down at the weekend and asked me this and i didnt have an answer!!!!
what kind of a pig keeper am i if i cant answer questions like this which im sure probley have an abvious
answer.
ta for any replys langdon

[egglady]

grand question which i will love to know the answer to as well! as we are in the same position!

[sausagesandcash]

Tamworth - The Tamworth is one of the great ‘dual purpose’ pigs producing stunningly good pork as well as equally tremendous bacon. In the mid 1990’s the Tamworth came top in a taste test carried out by Bristol University using both commercial and rare breed pigs in a scientifically controlled experiment. It was later suggested that further investigation should take place to establish just what it was that gave the Tamworth meat such a distinctive taste putting it way above all the other breeds.

http://www.pigparadise.com/tam.html

We chose ours for this reason, coupled with the pigs roots as the Irish Grazer.

I know it doesn't answer your question, but it might give you food for thought  when buying more pigs.

Regards,

Morgan

[Hilarysmum]

I think smaller breeds would be kept just for pork.  Larger breeds can be slaughtered early as pork or kept on for bacon, ham etc.  In my experience a porker would be around 60 k dw and a baconer nearer 100 (or more).

Seconding Morgan's posting, tamworths do make both superb pork and bacon. 

[gavo]

It's all a matter of size; bacon pigs are heavier to get good sized joints for curing. But most small scale pig keepers turn their pig into both we
always do both with our TAMS and ours generally kill out at about 70-90 kgs. Taking a pig to bacon weight costs more but bacon costs more to buy and generally the more processed a pig the bigger the "profit". When you decide to cure some joints you just lose some of your pork products ie if you do gammons no pork leg joints but you could do one of each etc . Alternatively you could do 2 pigs and do one as a cured pig and one as pork. But most importantly [and this is important] don't get hung up on the technicalities of what your pig will or wont be[as defined by the professionals] just turn it into what suits you and yours and you wont go far wrong.

[Hilarysmum]

Gavo wish we had had access to your common sense when we first started.  The rubbish "experts" spouted then ....

[langdon]

just simple answer i was looking for gavo.
have you ever had british saddleback?
these are the breed that we have at the mo.
at what weight should these go?
im not looking for a precise weight just a rough idea
i guess the more  experience you have you can use the eye better, right?
thanks gavO

[gavo]

Langdon,
               Have never kept Saddlebacks {fell in love with Tams] but the same principles apply in general.Do you have gilts or boars? Generally you can keep the gilts much longer. SBs do mature earlier than Tams, friends keep them and slaughter boars around 6-8 months. I would still keep to the idea of having a feel of their backs and rib cage.But there is a measurement formula you can use to get an idea of your pigs dead weight.

Formula
        1     measure pig from the top of head to base of tail

         2    measure round it's middle directly behind it's front legs
         3    multiply these numbers 
          4   divide the answer by 13 for a lean pig, 12 for medium or 11 for fat..

          measure in inches and weight is in pounds. When they reach a weight your happy with off they go.

         Hope that helps.The first pigs are always a bit hit and miss; it's all part of learning;what you want and what the pig can do.

[langdon]

interesting reply
ours are boars we have 3 at the mo they are just coming up to 6 mths one of them
is far bigger than the other two.
interesting to read how to get their weight by using tape, read you do similar for goats
which we have too.

[gavo]

Langdon
            That formula is really quite accurate we've used it a few times and it was really close to the weights we got from the abbatoir.
             I don't know if it can be used for other animals.
             
             HM so many of the" experts" only deal with commercial pigs which bear no relationship to keeping traditional breeds; we stopped listening to them after we took our first pigs to slaughter early; as we were told of the horrors of boar taint.We have learnt so much along the way generally from reading the GOS book and from a small band of rare breed keepers the rest has been common sense and a desire to do things right.

Langdon we have three goats mainly as pets but we have never tried to weigh them or work out their weight;they're healthy eat well and very lively that's good enough for us.

[HeronsReach]

Interesting thread this one. I'm taking four saddlebacks to the abatoir next week (my first). Ive done the measurements and they weigh an average of 60kg. I assume from experts these are porkers ie not curing ie bacon gammon etc. Just off topic the boar taint thing is getting me worried, but i've read that this only affects older mature boars. The boars i'm taking are still with their sisters and havent had there b*****ks chopped. Should I be worried??

[Wizard]

Good morning I have also been reading this thread with interest.Have you read the thread Killing the pig 60 yrs ago.The whole thing is different to what I,my Father & Grandfather and Uncles did and I know about.Firstly my pig was kept to weigh around 30 score (600lbs or 272 kgs ) live weight.There is much talk about nowadays of porkers and bacon pigs.Now no getting upset and nasty with me I'm telling you as an EXPERT in cottage pig keeping done by myself to the time honoured way by most country folk.The pigs you talk of are baby's have little taste to me and we always kept Large Whites.Pork was cut from the tastiest parts but don't forget no vac-pak and no freezers.So the main had to be cured with salt.The hams off such a pig would weigh 25/30 kgs each That means the 2 hams would weigh as much as your live weight pig.This is why I said "You don't kill the pig when there is no R in the month.The offal products and sausage had to be eaten reasonably quickly.But the bacon and ham was used up from year to year a bit was always left over to keep you going while the last killed pig matured.They were fed on anything they would eat and if they were left in the orchard there were no fallen apples in the autumn I think they could hear an apple fall in the grass at 500 yards The whole thing you people talk about is what we would have as a roast pig spit roast for harvest festival supper.Usually one that was known as the Runt and didn't do very well.So you see today's pig keeping has nothing to do with yesteryear as such.A bit that may be of interest was Large Whites were replaced in the 1960's with a pig called Landrace from Denmark.Lots of Large White X Landrace were about for a time but then the housewife didn't want any fat on her pork so the weight of the pig came down and down until you get what you have today Nothing I am told to do with fat costs money to put on the living pig. There are still a few kept on farms and jolly good they are too especially chinned and the chine stuffed and thats not everyones cup of tea.It's an acquired taste I'm told 

[gavo]

Wizard

          Not the housewife the shops /producers realised that these new pigs could be brought to slaughter weight quicker and easier than the older more traditional breeds. Since then we have been on a merry go round of bigger leaner and more productive pigs with less and less taste.
We have done some very large pigs akin to the type you mention but not very often.

Heronsreach

                What age are your boars? We always separate ours from the females; usually at weaning to prevent accidents and to reduce any likelyhood of boar taint.The weight is irrelevant when it comes to curing or not; there is no golden size at which they must or must not be cured; on any size pig you can have both;it's merely a question of the joint sizes.Regarding boar taint only a small minority of people are highly sensitive to it so unless they reek when they land with your butcher i wouldn't worry too much if they are not too old ie 6-9 months you should be alright.

[dixie]

My two penneths!!  Commercial tasteless pork is from young fast growing hybrids, grown for size and speed, not taste!
I have GOS and take them to slaughter between 22-26 weeks old, usually once they measure 40" around their girths or maybe a little less! I keep boars and gilts together and so far have not experienced taint! I have them butchered and make my own bacon and ham, if I were to be fussy I would take the boars at this age and take the gilts on for a few weeks longer to get bigger bacon joints, but I'm not fussy and am happy with smaller joints, I find the pork is the most tastiest I have ever had and would never buy tasteless supermarket cr*p again, I would rather go without! mine kill out around 60kg about right for a porker, baconers I think about 90kg.

[oaklandspigs]

Interesting debate.

The principal difference between a pork pig and a bacon pig is that you want a larger pig for bacon.  This is because if you take the pig off too small the loin (which make the back bacon) will have a good "eye" but no "tail". So you get a round rasher ! You also get a larger joint for hams.

However for pork joints, you generally want a smaller pig, as otherwise the leg joints don't cut into managable sizes and still get a good covering of skin for crackling.

Hence pork - smaller, bacon larger is the general principal.

You can achieve this three ways. 

The first is to have breeds that tend to grow grow to the size, so larger breeds will be easier to grow for bacon.  Smaller breeds such as the middlewhite are used for pork (which is why the middlewhite is known as the London porker).

The second is to simply grow your pig to size.  If you are smallsacle, then keeping your pork pigs for say 6-8 months, and your bacon pig 8-10 months gives you good size pork joints (but not too big) and good size bacon by keeping longer.  Clearly if you are commercial, you wouldn't want to waste time doing this so select for breed.

The third (a sub bit of the second) is a to select your weaner within the breed for what you want it for.  So when choosing say your saddleback, look for a squatter more muscley pig for pork with chunky legs, and a longer pig (the length of back determines how much bacon you get - longer back more bacon!) for your baconer.  Then simply grow to size.

So the asnwer is yes you can use any breed to make pork or bacon, and you can take pork or bacon from any size pig.  However the tendancy is to want smaller joints and larger bacon, so size makes that difference.  But absolutely no reason why you should take a pig off and use the legs for joints and the loin and belly for bacon.