[m3joeEm]

So I have taken the plunge and have purchased 42 Suffolk x Mule hoggets    to suit my upland/hill farm . they still have a bit of growing to do and will run with my 28 other Suffolk x texel ewes. I used a texel tup last year with the Suffolk x texel ewes and this resulted in some pretty good lambs for market. However i am interested in the idea of a closed flock and I am hoping to start breeding my own replacements. I am pondering the use of a Suffolk Ram to put with a small number the flock to try and produce some Suffolk ewes for replacements or possibly a blue Leicester Ram to produce big long ewe lambs. Has any one any other suggestions for crossing these ewes with to produce quality replacements? Charolais? Just putting it out there, I will not be tupping for another 7 weeks but would appreciate any opinions from TAS members.

[Keepers]

Congrats on your lovely new ewes 

For maternal replacements I would most definitely not use a charollais, speak to some of the top charollais breeders in the UK and they would advise you against it, they are a terminal sire
I would not use a BFL or suffolk either, suffolk is going too much of a pure terminal breed, will leave dopey(er) ewes and dopey(er) lambs

If looking for purely maternal replacements then I would use a lleyn or a romney or even a composite breed such as the highlander or an aberdale or one of the maternal bred rams from logie durno

http://www.logiedurnosheep.co.uk/

As your ewes have suffolk in them the maternal bred lambs should finish well enough and any ewe lambs you do not want should be able to fetch a premium in the market

Choose a lleyn with good EBV figures and good length to him, some of them even carry the MYOmax muscleing gene, I reckon you couldn't go far wrong with one of those, should produce a good size and highly maternal ewe lamb out of your ewes

[shep53]

Since these sheep are already 25% BFL then increasing this would be a mistake IMO  ,  same for Suffolk as already 50% .  Charollais can produce good females on the right land . Since you are in Ireland then Belclare needs a look ..     

[Porterlauren]

Wouldn't touch a charley with a barge pole if I wanted to keep back ewes.

Same with the BFL. . . . . the breed has VERY few upsides, and those that it does can be found else where!

Keepers isn't far off the mark.

Too much terminal in the mix for me, but if I was going to try to create a 'terminal type' maternal ewe, starting with a suffolk x mule ewe, i'd be having a serious look at a NZ Texel, with good maternal figures. Or as said, a LLeyn.

[Me]

Personally, I would avoid the Charlie, poor maternal cross ewe IME - but others have had better results apparently, Suffolk are bloody awful IMO, big heads, big legs and not a lot else. A friend of mine however swears by the Suffolk/mule/more Suffolk combo - but his stocking rate is uneconomically low and concentrate bill very high.
Lleyn are a good ewe if you can find a type that suits you and your ground, but I am biased  

[m3joeEm]

thanks for the replies. I have a lot to think about. Definitely not going for the Suffolk idea any more thanks for the advice. the lleyn sounds good if i got one with the right ebvs. can picture nice speckle face lambs from them

[Porterlauren]

Now come on ME. . . . tell us what you really think. 

[m3joeEm]

or maybe I will have to just keep buying in replacements   

[Me]

Now come on ME. . . . tell us what you really think. 

Put it this way, I spent money (yes real actual money) on a Lleyn ram yesterday... thats all I'm saying

[Porterlauren]

What. . . . . 'money' money?

Bloody hell mate, I've got to stop buying sheep from you, all that cash is going to your head.

To the op - A closed flock is the ultimate dream (or should be) of every sensible sheep farmer. But the ETERNAL issue is how to keep a closed flock, where the lambs can both be kept back as great replacements and also be fattened and reach a good price.

I plan to close my flock in a few years in terms of replacements, but I think I will always have to buy in terminal rams to produce fat lambs, as I intend to run a three way split flock system.

[nutterly_uts]

Following this with not a lot to say Friend in NI is hoping to move into sheep so may end up PM'ing you next year for a couple of sheep to start off with

[Me]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo not money money! GOD! Just "money" and my version of "money" at that.. steady on! Phew I need a sit down and a strong cup of tea at the thought of it.. 

[Porterlauren]

Thank gawd for that matey, I was starting to think you were getting carried away with the price of lamb being what it is. I know we're all raking it in, but if you start buying tups for 'money money' folk will rumble us. . .

[m3joeEm]

What about cheviot? I know cheviot x suffolk can produce smashing ewe lambs because the farmer i bought mine off had some and they were great (but too expensive) but i wonder what about cheviot x suffolk mules.

[m3joeEm]

all this money talk is making me jealous