Author Topic: look at this  (Read 7493 times)

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: look at this
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 01:27:21 pm »
its a problem as old as time WBF.
I remember being a 16 yr old pony-owner ( 40 yrs ago!) and turning up to our little  2-horse stables to find there had been a break-in and all our tack stolen. That was really hard as I had worked Saturdays for years to buy all my tack and I couldn't afford another saddle of my own.
Then Ive been on various livery yards since where raids on our tack rooms have occurred. They often come in clusters in an area.
Lots of people think that horses are only owned by people with plenty of money. That's not my experience. Horses are really a way of life and most of my horsey friends are in fact living on very poor incomes but they do without in order to keep horses. In a way its a sort of madness I suppose but its the way things are. So the loss of a £700 saddle is a BIG loss.
That's why I get so frustrated by equine vets fees, which are bloody eye-watering. And I have bang up-to-date first hand evidence that vets charge more for horses than for other large animals. Today I got my first invoice from the new vets I have taken on for our sheep. ( I mean new to me, not new in the sense of only just opening up!) I had a query on the invoice as the vet came to see our sheep but the invoice said he has come to see cattle. The receptionist said " Oh its OK. We have 2 charging rates; one for horses and one for all other farm animals, and our computer just calls that one Cattle".
Why do they have 2 charging rates? I didn't ask as these vets don't manage my horses but it just made me wince
Is it time to retire yet?

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: look at this
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 01:53:52 pm »
its a problem as old as time WBF.

That's why I get so frustrated by equine vets fees, which are bloody eye-watering. And I have bang up-to-date first hand evidence that vets charge more for horses than for other large animals. Today I got my first invoice from the new vets I have taken on for our sheep. ( I mean new to me, not new in the sense of only just opening up!) I had a query on the invoice as the vet came to see our sheep but the invoice said he has come to see cattle. The receptionist said " Oh its OK. We have 2 charging rates; one for horses and one for all other farm animals, and our computer just calls that one Cattle".
Why do they have 2 charging rates? I didn't ask as these vets don't manage my horses but it just made me wince

Hello Kimbo -  :wave: (we must stop meeting like this...)

"You are most likely to be seriously injured or sued and least likely to be paid when working on a horse" - Final year lecture in Vet School (why I decided I didn't want horse work!).

The fact is that the Tb income from cattle subs all other work - or did - now this is dropping maybe cattle work will have to rise in price

There are probably other reasons, but there are 4 there for a start 

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: look at this
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 03:21:16 pm »
are you a vet Me?
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

fsmnutter

  • Joined Oct 2012
  • Fettercairn, Aberdeenshire
Re: look at this
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 03:37:38 pm »
Also, people are far more likely to have insurance on horses, hence medicine has come a long way, fancy expensive tests and treatments are more available and likely to be used in horses.
Farm animals, even at smallholder scale, tend to have to pay their way, so there are limits above which veterinary treatment is not feasible.
Horse charges in our practice are almost identical to farm call out and examinations. These prices are much lower than they should be in relation to overheads etc but like I say have to be capped. The large animal and equine work we do leaves some very unpleasant unpaid bills and would not keep our heads above water without a large majority of small animal work to keep us going.

nutterly_uts

  • Joined Jul 2014
  • Jersey - for now :)
Re: look at this
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2015, 03:43:33 pm »
Have to say here Horse fees are MUCH less than equivalent small animal fees. Need to see a dog at midnight its £120 JUST for the vet to come into the practice and £120 PLUS £45 to go to see the dog at home. For the same vet to visit a horse, £45.
Used to drive me crazy which is why I swapped careers.

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: look at this
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 03:44:13 pm »
are you a vet Me?

Why? What have you heard? Who's asking? It wasn't Me. I've never met her and anyway it's Tuesday.....

S'pose it depends what you mean. Currently I would say I'm full time dad, part time shepherd and builder - also a Vet 

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: look at this
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2015, 08:02:49 pm »
Unpaid equine  bills??? Really? Round here if you didn't pay your bill no vet would ever come out to your horse again.
Im sorry if Im touching a nerve with the vets, whom I do respect,  but I stand by what I say..... as horse owners we are being bled dry, particularly in areas where there is a monopoly. I cant afford insurance any more; its £70 per month per horse. And the companies will only insure for one condition for 12 months so if you have a chronic problem you are on your own.
So all my vet bills come out of my net income and Ive seen about a 75% increase in the charges over the last 6/7 years alone.
If you are scared of getting hurt by a horse, fine, don't treat horses, but in 50+ years Ive never been hurt by a horse so I don't think that's a good reason to charge so much more than treating a Bull, or an Alpaca. Ive been hurt more by cats and dogs
Is it time to retire yet?

Me

  • Joined Feb 2014
  • Wild West
Re: look at this
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2015, 08:53:02 pm »
You are not being bled dry by Me Kimbo - I'd be happier not dealing with them  ;)! I thought the following would be of interest:

Being a horse vet in the UK appears to carry the highest risk of injury of any civilian occupation in the UK, according to the results of the first ever survey on injuries within the profession. This study, commissioned by the British Equine Veterinary Association (BEVA) and conducted by leading medical professionals at the Institute of Health and Wellbeing and the School of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Glasgow, has prompted BEVA to raise awareness of these risks within the equine industry and to look at ways of ways of making equine veterinary practice safer.

A total of 620 equine vets completed a work-related injuries questionnaire between September and November 2013. The results of the study indicated that an equine vet could expect to sustain between seven and eight work-related injuries that impeded them from practicing, during a 30-year working life.  Data available from the Health and Safety Executive suggest that vets working in equine practice in the UK, thus sustain a very high number of injuries compared to other civilian occupations, including those working in the construction industry, prison service and the fire brigade.

Thirty eight percent of the ‘worst’ injuries occurred when the vet was working with a ‘pleasure’ horse and most frequently (48% of all responses) the horse handler was the owner or the client at the time of the injury.

http://www.beva.org.uk/news-and-events/news/view/641

lord flynn

  • Joined Mar 2012
Re: look at this
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2015, 10:11:30 pm »
well, I get a bit annoyed at the assumption that I am rich lol-I work two jobs in order to afford my horses and go without new cars, holidays and girly stuff like clothes etc but I do appreciate that I am privileged in that I have the means to a disposable income to spend on them, even if it comes with a 60 hour working week and working through my annual leave this year taking on extra contracts. I get even more annoyed when for example, a delivery driver came to our place the day of the GE, looked at me and my place and assumed I was a fecking Tory  :roflanim:  and I get really annoyed at the likes on here who begrudge me and my tiny bit of land as they feel it should have half a dozen unproductive rare-breed sheep on it or something, but I digress.


I do think insurance is a double edged sword when it comes to equines, as it promotes aggressive treatment  and unrealistic rehab times when so many would recover just being chucked out in a field for a few years-but most owners can't/won't commit to that. And here's the thing- you don't have to insure-you then can choose your treatment or euthanasia if it comes to it. You also don't need to have more than one horse (disclaimer: I have one horse, two ponies). I don't expect vets, trimmers, truck mechanic or any other professional to subsidise my luxury hobby.


I used to work for one of the biggest equine practices in the UK as an EVN. We dealt with TBs mainly, flat bred TBs generally 3 yo and younger. When we were told there was a homebred coming in, or a leisure horse we'd roll our eyes because they were generally badly handled and owners were sent away due to being clueless. The TBS rarely caused problems and the handlers were all professionals. I've known two equine vets in the last five years forced out of the profession due to injury and I know how much debt equine practices used to carry (and farriers!). Why should they? Most mixed practices are carried by the SA business, the overheads for LA and equine are huge.

mowhaugh

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Scottish Borders
    • Facebook
Re: look at this
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2015, 08:38:57 am »
I do understand the higher charges once on site for horses for the reasons Me specifies above, but I don't get the difference in the call out charge, surely it doesn't cost more to drive to a horse than a sheep?

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: look at this
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 09:02:39 am »
I am not a fan of the horse, but I don't hate people because they keep them. I understand why you keep them lord Flynn, its because you love keeping them, horses are your passion, just like water buffalo are mine. i have also fought tooth and nail to keep my water buffalo, because at the end of the day they mean the world to me and I don't  know what I would do without them, they're my pets as well as a source of income. My point is we keep various animals, which not everyone likes, but we love them and we give up so much in order to keep them, I respect that. I don't judge people for keeping the animals they love, because I myself keep the animals I love and I don't care if other dairy farmers think am bonkers. I also hate it when people assume things about you, but I try not to let it get to me, because at the end of the day they don't know who you're as a person, because they haven't taken the time to get to know you, so in other words let them think whatever they think after all you know yourself (as do your family) and it doesn't matter what other people think as its always wrong.
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Hellybee

  • Joined Feb 2010
    • www.blaengwawrponies.co.uk
Re: look at this
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2015, 09:43:04 am »
We found a huge difference in vets fees when we moved from south Wales.  There's no difference in call outs livestock v equine. 


I breed on a small scale and many are here to stay but then I do have a little string coming along for the ridden job, they fly the nest at four/five. 

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: look at this
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2015, 09:58:06 am »
 I am a great believer in market forces. Things cost what they cost. You don't get a high performance car if you can't afford the high cost of insurance. Or if it really is your heart's desire then you get another job, or save on other things so you can afford it. (Like what Waterbuffalofarmer and lord flynn said about their animals.)
Our vets, who are farm vets, charge less for treating a sheep than a cow, because sheep are worth less but still need treatment. They have to get their money in somehow and how they work it is up to them.
I've just had a donkey castrated for £200 which I think is remarkably good value. The vet and her assistant were with us for 2 hours as donkeys are a bit trickier to do than a horse.
When our cattle are treated for anything they are restrained in a crush so no one will get hurt. I therefore have the greatest of respect for vets who will (apparently happily!) come out and treat a possibly half tonne horse with no effective safeguards at all apart from a bit of rope and the reassurances of the owner.
Anyone running a business has the absolute right to charge what is to them an economic rate. Anyone using that business has the right to take it or leave it.
Without wishing to be cruel - the costs of keeping an equine are what they are. If they become unaffordable then there are plenty of people advertising for someone to excercise  or share their horse, so you don't have to give up riding altogether.
But to get back to the original post. Unfortunately there will always be low life around. All you can do is constantly reassess your security.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 10:03:50 am by landroverroy »
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