Author Topic: Related/unrelated cockerels (Read 4184 times)

princesslayer · « **on:** August 09, 2015, 11:12:38 pm »

Hello

I've hatched my first five chicks this summer. I'm going to keep the hens and eat the cocks, though not sure what I've got of each sex yet.

My laying hens are one Sussex, one orange hybrid and two black ones, breed unknown. My cockerel is a very fine and gentlemanly Sussex, but he's carrying old injuries and I think he's slowing down.

So can I keep what I suspect is his pure Sussex son? I'm only breeding egg layers and the odd table birds, I have no desire to breed high quality. Or is this going to cause me problems if I keep chicks further down the line that are the progeny of related parents?

Thanks

chrismahon · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2015, 06:13:32 am »

I'm told that longer term inbreeding will result in deformed chicks and at that stage you will need to introduce new blood in the form of an unrelated cock Princesslayer. How quickly it becomes a problem I don't know but we have just hatched 2nd generation inbred bantams with no side effects (the hen is the daughter of the cock). I did read that up to 10 generations can be bred without serious deformities and we are a long way off from that stage as you are. So I'd keep the cockerel to replace the old boy, who may not be fertile next season anyway. You should always keep a spare cock just in case I think.

Kimbo · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2015, 07:29:31 am »

given the number of pure Sussex cockerels that are available free, why would you take the risk of using a closely related one? I collected a FOC Buff Sussex cockerel myself only last week to go with my buff girls.
If you are not wanting to line breed for any particular characteristics I think its best avoided

Thyme · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2015, 08:25:16 am »

Quote from: Kimbo on August 10, 2015, 07:29:31 am

given the number of pure Sussex cockerels that are available free, why would you take the risk of using a closely related one?

Keeping a closed flock would be one benefit...

Marches Farmer · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2015, 09:38:10 am »

When you look at something like the Chillingham Wild Cattle, which have interbred without interference for 700 years so they're virtually genetically identical you do sometimes wonder about the necessity for introducing new bloodlines. We split our original Naragansett turkey flock into two and used those birds until they grew too old for breeding. We thought we should introduce new bloodlines and I got 10 eggs from two top breeders - 8 were infertile, 1 late death in shell and 1 pipped and had to be helped out. I set 17 eggs from our NT's and 16 hatched and are thriving. Makes me wonder why I'm bothering about new bloodlines!

princesslayer · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2015, 02:57:34 pm »

Quote from: Kimbo on August 10, 2015, 07:29:31 am

given the number of pure Sussex cockerels that are available free, why would you take the risk of using a closely related one?

I think I'm just attached to my chicks, Kimbo! Which is sentimental nonsens really, as I'll definitely be doing at least one in! I also think because my current cockerel is so nicely tempered, his son is more likely to be.

Thanks all, think I'll keep one and risk it.

Steph Hen · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2015, 03:43:48 pm »

As chrismahon said above, there was a study, think they used Egyptian Fayoumi, and inbred closely for 10 generations without defects.

So yes, although it seems dodgy, it's fine to leave the same cock over a flock for a few years (assuming he'll breed with daughters and grand daughters, then get replaced). -apparently this is simply what happened on farms in years gone by (speaking with my elderly neighbour, he said you shouldn't keep the same sire bird for more than four years).

NicandChic · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2015, 04:51:51 pm »

We had a brother/sister Wyandotte duo, had perfectly fine strong healthy chicks.

Castle Farm · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2015, 05:41:49 pm »

In all my years of breeding poultry I have never had a deformed chick. Even up to 5th generation as long as you only breed from the fittest and the birds with the most vitality you can't go far wrong. If you allow any weakness in through unselected breeding your looking for trouble.

devonlady · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2015, 07:30:29 pm »

The only thing I noticed in in/line breeding with IG's was eventually the birds got smaller. That was after 10 years or so.

lord flynn · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2015, 07:51:00 pm »

Mother-son and father daughter matings are pretty standard in poultry (and in other species), you don't really want to be introducing loads of new blood all the time if you're breeding pure breeds, you need to know your lines. Sibling matings are generally frowned upon (but happen way more than anyone cares to admit in the showing world). In order to 'fix' a lot of the colours you find in the different breeds, much line breeding went on as did much culling.And in utility strains the best producing birds should be bred from, not pullets or unproven birds. For a backyard flock, you probably have more chance of buying in something nasty disease wise than breeding something bad in from a few generations inbreeding. Just don't breed from anything that seems weak etc