[dixie]

Hi I know theres some very experienced doggy people here, can you help please?  we have 2 gsd's (both rescue had them over a year now) they are aged 2 and 3 so still young, we try really hard to train them with a reasonable amount of success but one thing I'm trying to work on is mouthing, eachother mainly but also they lick everyones hands, any ideas?

[HappyHippy]

I can't give advice Dixie I'm afraid - but can sympathise.
When we had our 2 GSD's the smaller of the 2, Deuce, was terrible for mouthing (and generally harrassing) Boris, to the point that he would grab him by the scruff and pull him across the (very slippy) laminate floor. Boris never seemed to mind, and never made an attempt to escape it - I think Deuce was trying to establish dominance over him But as for how to stop it.......................ask Annie

[doganjo]

Why do you want to stop them playing with each other?  Dogs do that - they play open mouthed fighting.  Mine do all the time.  However, they must stop IMMEDIATELY on my command.  You must be in control at all times.  The command I use is ENUFF!!!!!!  They stop, sit down and look at me.  They have been taught that from puppies.  If yours haven't then you must establish that you are the boss on each dog individually - by doing basic obedience for a few minutes every day.  If however they are mouthing and lick people, then they need to know it's unacceptable, and again it is control that is the key.  When they lick you, pull your hand away and say NO very firmly.  Then put them on a sit, and praise without treats as a reward.  Keep doing that every time they try to lick or mouth you, extend that to visitors with them having been primed beforehand.  Tell your visitors to turn their back on the dog if it continues after you have commanded them to stop, then you reinforce the command.  Whatever you do never use your hand to reprimand a dog.

I hope that helps but please ask again if it doesn't and I'll try to think of something else. 

I have to say that all of mine will go up to my friends and visitors and offer to lick them, with the friends/visitors in control as to whether they want them to do it or not (mine know the body language of NO before they hear the word)but they don't mouth.  They do to me though, I am often led from one place to another by two dogs on each arm holding me.

[dixie]

No I dont want to stop them playing at all, but do feel its a dominance thing though, its very rough and they use it to enforce my discipline? ie we have many animals here, both dogs are prone to chase so I have taught them to walk behind me rather than run in front to chase the chickens etc? which mostly works, sometimes 1 might stray in a different direction so the other will dive on her and it all kicks off, not a fight but rough and not what I expect them to do! i try to keep the commands simple and not shout but give a grrr or NO!
We dont get many visitors so its hard to get the message across not to jump up and wash everyone! we do try but I'm finding them very tiring at the moment, I know its down to us to train and discipline which we do but god its hard! but I will try your advice, thank you

[Rosemary]

It is hard, isn't it. I find our dogs hard work sometimes and we don't have the excuse of having rescued tham as adults - we've had them since pups.

Actually, with moving to Carnoustie with Dan's parents, who also have two dogs, we're going to take advice from a trainer on how best to integrate them.

[dixie]

We took them both to training classes where we learnt quite a lot, and do try to keep it up, they are lovely dogs but yes very hard work!

[doganjo]

I think you've both hit the nail on the head, and with reference to the other thread on taxing dog ownership, I agree with Rosemary that there should be some control on dog ownership but yet again it will be the law abiding ones who do.  Dogs ARE hard work, I've always told my new puppy buyers exactly that.  Good luck with your two, Dixie, and well done Rosemary for enlisting help with yours when they move.  I'm sure they'll be fine once they've established where they are in the pack.

[RUSTYME]

with regard to 'most responsible owners' chipping their dogs ,
 why is it 'responsible' to put a chip in your dog ?
 because the brainwashed sheeple say so ?
 because you are told to ?
 am I irresponsible for not having them in mine ?
 how safe are these chips ? :
 http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_7570.cfm
 why do people just blindly follow every single thing that the government say, without question ?
 This 'out of control ' wave of dog breeding for fighting and use as weapons , seems to have  popped up at yet another convenient moment !!! Do 'responsible' people really think, that the people breeding these 'illegal' dogs, are going to trot along to the vets  and PAY to get their 'illegal' dogs chipped ? and then have them destroyed !!! and then get taken to court for owning/breeding the dog ?
 So yet again it just reverts back to normal people being made  criminals if they don't abide by 'responsible' peoples ideas  of what everyone should do !!! 
 RFID .... yes very good isn't it ...all safe and only for use in animals ... er well no actually . TV wasn't converted to digital because it gave better pictures.  it was done to make way for the sale of analogue wavelengths. To be sold off for use in RFID chip technology . Just in animals ...nope .. in us, people . Take a look at Verichip ... the RFID chip people .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip
 Oh well very good you may say , it will make things so much better for everyone ... young babies ... the very old with memory loss ... the sick ... prisoners ... oh and also the unemployed ... no chip = no money , then everyone else .
 While you are looking at verichip , also have a look at  IBM ...and their link with the Holocaust. It was IBM's punch card (Hollerith) machine that made it possible for the Nazis to wipe out 6 million Jews in WW2 . How did it make it possible ? with an ID number (the death camp tattoo was an IBM number)....the same as the RFID chip for humans has  (the RFID chip number is 16 digits long )... yes so what you may say , it is just a number , Tell that to the remaining death camp survivors!!! , oh and ,  IBM are backing the company that makes the human RFID chip.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/mar/29/humanities.highereducation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2udoNmQkR4

 I am not getting my dogs chipped EVER , nor will I ever be chipped ...no doubt that means I am irresponsible !! so be it . As was said in the Prisoner TV program " I am not a number ...I am a free man " and I intend to stay so , unlike most 'responsible' people ....

cheers

Russ              

                          Arbeit macht frei

[Wizard]

I have no wish to upset you at all Russ but what else is it the Gordon brigade can focus the troubles of the times on Certainly not the terrible state Britain is in with massive debt cuts in this cuts in that oh dearie me.It s good to stir up many of the people with such a simple thing.Don't you think

[doganjo]

and who mentioned microchipping on this thread anyway

[RUSTYME]

yep you got me there Annie.... it must be all the micro waves from all these dog chips ..they have fried me brains... wrong thread .....


cheers

Russ (what a div eh ? )

[Rosemary]

I've been taking Annie's advice and spending some time every day doing "obedience" with our dogs. Both went to basic classes when they were pups - Tess actually progressed to the advanced class and was very good - and both went to agility before other things took over - so they know the basics. Both spend at least 10 minutes of their walk on their leads too, walking "close" and sitting and so on. And do you know, I THINK I'm seeing a difference especially in Tess. Meg's very demanding and sticks a stick under your feet while Tess just wanders along - she'll do two retrieves then she's "done that". I think we've allowed Tess to become "independent" and it's not good for her. She likes her obedience work and being the centre of attention for once.

We've also stopped Meg carrying a stick on walks - if we choose, we carry it and throw it when we choose, so we call the shots now, not her.

When we meet other dogs, they have to come and sit by me until the other dogs have passed. Haven't stopped the car chasing yet though - I'm not as inetersting as a set of moving wheels.

It's not easy - at least not as easy as wandering along with the dogs doing their thing but I'm hoping that it will make them happier dogs in the long run.

Sorry this is a bit of topic but just thought it might help with dog stuff.

[doganjo]

Excellent!  That's exactly what I meant.  Now all I have to do is practice what I preach or you'll all find me out for the irresponsible lackadaisacal too many dogs idiot that I am

[Jackie]

Dixie Ill explain a little if I may about dogs and the pack order.

 Dogs have a hierarchy that is movable up and down but generally stable with the top dog being the top dog until its weakened and another dog takes over the top dog spot. This hierarchy is more noticeable with GSD's than many other breeds. With my goldens you wouldn't notice unless you really looked for it cos dominance once sorted out is reinforced with just a look from the top dog. Besides Goldens are more laid back generally.

In this pack you are the top dog and to reinforce that leadership your second in command is reinforcing your orders. That is what they should do, however, in your pack the second and third place haven't quite been decided so you get tussles between the GSD's all the time. What you should do is watch to see who is the most dominant of the 2 dogs and alway, always put that one before the other. Stroke it first, feed it first, allow it through doorways first (behind you of course), praise it when it reinforces your rules. Don't think that the second in command is always the oldest dog it isn't, really spend some time looking at who displays the most dominant behaviour.
A calm kennel is one that has this order sorted out.

As Annie has said you need to have a command shouted in a hard loud voice that they immediately obey and fighting stops dead! I use the word ennuff too lol To train this command get 2 metal dog dishes and while you shout bang them together hard. The noise stops them in their tracks. Eventually you wont need the dishes.

Now as for mouthing each other, if dogs had hands and arms like we do they wouldn't mouth, they play with their mouths usually accompanied by lots of play growls and squeals. Sometimes mine remind me of walruses fighting with rearing up open mouthed lol but it is only playing.
 With GSD's it can go a bit far but you will hear the difference in the growls and squeals and stop the play immediately!.

As for licking hands I personally don't mind this but if you do when visitors come make the dogs sit 2 feet away from them and then the visitors can choose to go to the dogs or not.Most people who like to stroke dogs don't mind the licking.

PS I do have 2 GSD's and am planning on having more as well as my Goldens 

[Wizard]

Jackie Very noticeable in the fox hounds pack or is that a dirty word on here?