Author Topic: Thin Hebs  (Read 6200 times)

Katrina

  • Joined Jul 2014
  • Cornwall
Thin Hebs
« on: June 24, 2015, 03:34:21 pm »
Hi.  I recently acquired a flock of Hebs and I thought they looked a bit thin, and now I have had them shorn, they look really thin.  However, I do have Ryelands and Dorset x and obviously they would look small compared to them.  I just want to check, will decent grass naturally help them put on a bit of weight, do they need something else or am I worrying about nothing should they look very thin?

Since they arrived I have had to round them up to worm them, to treat one for flystrike, to remove the rams, removed the lambs, send for shearing, very hastly removed them from 20+ rams very annoyed rams - basically I think they look at me and wish I would sod off!!!   I don't want to mess with them unless it is necessary but want to do what they need.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2015, 03:55:29 pm »
Hi.  I recently acquired a flock of Hebs and I thought they looked a bit thin, and now I have had them shorn, they look really thin.  However, I do have Ryelands and Dorset x and obviously they would look small compared to them.  I just want to check, will decent grass naturally help them put on a bit of weight, do they need something else or am I worrying about nothing should they look very thin?

Since they arrived I have had to round them up to worm them, to treat one for flystrike, to remove the rams, removed the lambs, send for shearing, very hastly removed them from 20+ rams very annoyed rams - basically I think they look at me and wish I would sod off!!!   I don't want to mess with them unless it is necessary but want to do what they need.
decent grass should make them pile on the weight.  :)
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

verdifish

  • Joined Jan 2013
  • banffshire
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2015, 05:26:48 pm »
Just be care full with "decent grass " as your probably aware hebs are great conservation grazers and will do too well on hi power grass ,they almost browse as goats do rather than ( normal sheep) graze .they will get fat if left on hi power pasture.with this in mind we now try to send sheep away for the butcher at the beginning of summer rather than the end as it made ours a wee bit to fat being left all summer to graze !

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2015, 07:52:59 pm »
Hebs are not naturally a big animal, especially compared with Ryelands and Dorsets.  The Hebridean Sheep Breed Description quotes: "Ewes typically weigh 35-40kgs, and rams proportionately larger......These sheep are slow maturing and are not inclined to carry excess condition; mature adults, even on good keep, rarely have a body score greater than 3"

I always think that most sheep look a bit skinny after shearing, but Hebs, Soay and so on even more so, especially if shorn to skin.

It's difficult to know what you think of as thin, maybe a pic would help?

You would normally expect your ewes to be a bit skinny when feeding lambs, but once weaned the ewes will build back condition on grazing and browsing alone, prior to tupping.  Hebs are capable of getting to a CS of a bit more than 3 if fed on very rich grass, but unless they have been born on such rich land, they will tend to scour with too much lush grass.

If these are first shear hoggs, then they will look a bit smaller than the adults.

As for bringing them in, you need to bring them in again to apply an anti-flystrike product now.   However, as for bringing them in often, that can be a good thing, as the more they are handled, the easier to handle they will become.  They need to learn your system, and you need to learn about their characters and behaviour.

So when you bring them in for their Crovect, or whatever you use, check their condition scores, and their weight if you can, and compare them to the breed description.  What you don't want is for them to have sunken flanks, or protruding ribs.  They carry their fat internally, not on their backs - I think this might make them more susceptible to problems if overweight, due to increased pressure on their organs - what do others think of this idea?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 11:04:33 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Katrina

  • Joined Jul 2014
  • Cornwall
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2015, 09:36:51 pm »
Thanks all of you. Appreciate your response. The lambs are looking great, I think that maybe the problem, that the mums have given them everything. I will watch they don't go fat and keep them too long.

I have attached some pics but they are not that clear. The ram is a bit drawn in the flank but I am not too concerned. Several of the ewes are very drawn, one is very boney in the back and  does look a bit ribey. She raised 2 big lambs.

I will be using clik, which I don't mind getting them in for, I think I may just get them in to handle them, not to do something they dislike like weaning, shearing etc.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2015, 10:56:14 pm »
They're beautiful. Are you gonna be breeding them for meat? Also are they an ancient breed, cause they look similar to Greek mountain sheep.
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2015, 11:18:38 pm »
Katrina, from what I can see in the pics, the right hand ewe in the second pic is skinny, but appears to be determined to do something about it herself  ;D   The tup looks fine.

Waterbuffalofarmer - yes they are an ancient type of sheep, also Northern Shorttailed, so different from sheep which came to Britain via the Mediterranean.  They are very hardy and self reliant, and I think you're right that they're like old types from other countries, although not closely related to them.  For Hebs and other Primitives, they've been in Britain since Stone Age times, according to archaeological finds.  They were just a type, a landrace, from  which some were selected out to become breeds towards the end of the 19thC - Hebs being black, Manx Loughtan brown, Shetlands a variety of colours but which had been selected over the generations for fine fleeces, North Roanaldsays were barricaded on the beach to leave good grazing for cattle, and so on - all the same basic sheep though.   As far as I know, NST sheep are not related to European breeds of long tailed and fat tailed sheep, nor are they related to Jacobs, in spite of their similarity.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Katrina

  • Joined Jul 2014
  • Cornwall
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 09:17:47 am »
They are lovely waterbuffalofarmer, thank you.  The lambs will be going for meat, I will be selling the ram or ram lamb and the others are yet to be decided.  I initially wanted a couple of ewes with lambs at foot to see how I got on with them, but the person I arranged to buy them from was let down on the last week before their move and asked if I would take the lot - I ended up with 14.  I would definitely like to keep a couple.......maybe more if they fit well.

Thanks Fleecewife, you are a great help.  Eve is definitely my main concern, she is my most beautiful heb ewe with lovely character.  I will watch her carefully, she is munching away, my fingers are crossed she can regain her condition  :fc: :fc:  I am glad the tup is ok, as he is in with 2 very lazy and bit fat ryelands and I wouldn't want to try and feed one :) They are on grass that I think hebs like, they have to wander and forage to find it with other shrubs etc, which they seem to love and the ryelands huff and puff at me about it - but should bring them up to a fitter condition.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2015, 10:33:14 am »
If you are worried about that one ewe come tupping time, then give her a year off from breeding.  I believe that's not such a good idea with some big breeds, but with Hebs the only difference it makes is to give them enough time to recover their condition.  It could be worth checking her teeth if she's an older ewe.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

waterbuffalofarmer

  • Joined Apr 2014
  • Mid Wales
  • Owner of 61 Mediterranean water buffaloes
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2015, 11:39:53 am »
With any animal they need time to adjust to their new surroundings, once adjusted they should put on weight :)
the most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, loving concern.

Katrina

  • Joined Jul 2014
  • Cornwall
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2015, 01:52:38 pm »
Thanks, its good know I can rest her happily if needed.  She is an older ewe, I checked her teeth when I decided to remove the lambs and she is missing some.  I will play the waiting game, see what happens over the next few weeks, at least with no fleece I can see properly. 

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Thin Hebs
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 02:36:55 pm »
Broken mouthed older ewes rarely get back in condition after lambing and if she should be tupped and conceive twins it's either a lot of cosseting or risking twin lamb disease.  I suggest getting them bucket trained as soon as possible - a small handful of coarse mix goes a long way to making sheep friendly, and maybe bring them in and just feed them without catching or checking in any way, so they know handling doesn't always mean unpleasantness.

 

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