[henchard]

Thought that small holders might be interested/amused to see a farmers view of (some!) smallholders (this was posted this week on a farming forum).

"Why do people with little bits of ground think that you would be interested in cutting their  grass  and baling it. It's usually  full of weed, probably  got hidden trenches and detritus  from when they converted their part of heaven, got access no wider than 9ft with over hanging trees that if you ask to lop low limbs they go into melt down and why do they always think to ask after the baling contractor has finished and that he would also be interested in coming back especially for less than 8 bales!!

 Oh and you just know that if you leave any mark on their verge to gain access they'll feel more agreaved than losing a family member.

 No thanks I say politely to the lady looking at me like I've turned down a winning lottery ticket!! "

[Womble]

Fair enough!

There's also the flip side though, of "please can I put my tups on your paddock for a couple of months?". Translation: None of my fields are well enough fenced to contain a randy sheep, and I don't want all my ewes having early pregnancies.

[devonlady]

You've both hit the nail on the head there my dears!!

[Kimbo]

Henchard, thanks for that! It was sobering reading as I think Im one of those complaining people looking at a sea of grass and wondering why I cant even give it away!! It would produce about 50/60 bales but I admit that Ive got overhanging oak trees that Im very fond of and only 11ft gateways!
Oh dear.... my own fault then after all! 

[Fleecewife]

Yes I wish this was more widely broadcast.  Often on TAS, the advice is given to ask 'a friendly farmer', or even 'ask your friendly farmer'.  Farmers, friendly or otherwise, have their own land to care for, their own livelihoods to make, their own timetables to keep to, just as weather dependent as any smallholders.  Most new neighbours of first time smallholders are very happy to help the first time, to get someone on their feet and to teach them how to do things.  It's not fair though to continue to rely on the goodness of your neighbour's heart.
If you can't do the work yourself, then find a contractor and join the queue, or best of all, get your own equipment (second hand doesn't break the bank unless you're on a real shoestring)  and become independent as soon as you can.  Even if you make some cock-ups, people will respect you for at least having a go -it will give them a good laugh too 
Advice is cheap, but remember again that time is not, so don't hang around gabbing half the day to your friendly farmer, who's too polite to say he has work to do.

[Womble]

Good points FW, but I've fixed one line for you:

If you can't do the work yourself, then find a contractor and join the back of the queue

That's part of the problem - I can't find a contractor who's willing to do things like liming on our wee bit fields.  With the best will in the world, smallholders are always going to be at the bottom of the heap for that sort of thing, or quoted ludicrous prices aren't they?

[Marches Farmer]

Often on TAS, the advice is given to ask 'a friendly farmer', or even 'ask your friendly farmer'.  Farmers, friendly or otherwise, have their own land to care for, their own livelihoods to make, their own timetables to keep to, just as weather dependent as any smallholders. 

True, but it may also depend on how friendly your friendly farmer actually is.  Our neighbours were so releived we were actually going to farm the land and not keep a couple of ponies on it for the children and let it run to rack and ruin they not only stopped to chat they phoned us up and asked to help out and if we did something like returning a bit of kit they'd volunteered to lend us would ask us in for coffee or insist on showing us the latest calf.  It would surely have been churlish to refuse ....?

[Fleecewife]

Good points both.  But Marches Farmer, that is normal neighbourly friendliness, and we have that sort of relationship with several local farmers, and smallholders.  The problem comes when you start to expect free work done, then the offers dry up quickly, and fair enough.
I think there may be a small degree of self interest in there though, as if you can teach your new wide-eyed and innocent smallholding neighbours how to manage their land to keep spreading weeds etc under control, then you don't have them spreading onto your own land.   There's all sorts of things we don't think of when we first move to the country, so some instruction from next door is most welcome (to nearly everyone)


And yes Womble, it's the back of the queue     It's to encourage you to learn to do it yourself.  There's nothing like independence.


Having now been on both sides of this situation, I think I can appreciate both points of view.  When we first moved here donkeys years ago, we needed help, particularly with hay making.  Our neighbours were wonderful, but in the second year we had no crop at all, whereas he got his in safely.  He explained that the rain had got ours because he had to finish his financially important haymaking (ten times as much as ours), and get it all under cover before the rain arrived.  He couldn't justify stopping his work in order to help us out, or both crops would have been lost (hay making is always a bit dodgy here).  We understood that completely, but were then determined to be able to do the whole process ourselves.
More recently, we began helping out new smallholders with their hay making, but we would suddenly find that they became really demanding.  Our only payment was half the crop - suddenly from one lady we had to have the worst half, brought in after hers was all stored away.  Two years in a row, another neighbour went on holiday at haymaking time, leaving us to do all the work, including carting and stacking on our own.....then they complained we hadn't stacked it quite to their liking.  B####r that     Now they don't get a hay crop at all, because no-one will do it 

[Womble]

Agreed! There's neighbourliness, and there's taking the P1ss!

I'll be honest, the more I see and understand of farming, the more grateful I am that I'm not trying to make my living at it!

[pharnorth]

Oh Fleecewife I am racked with guilt. In my defence when I read your comment I had literally just put the phone down after phoning my friendly local farmer to thank him for getting my hay in last week while I was in Crete helping the Greek economy.  For each of the last 15 years he has safely cut and bought it in for me, but always insists I tell him when to cut. This year 5 days before I went away I said I thought we should do it, but rain was forecast on day 5, he said he would prefer to wait.....and for once make the call when to cut.....

But it has always been a financial arrangement on his terms and whilst it can seem expensive I do think we smallholders need to take into account small scale is not economical and it will cost more per acre.

[devonlad]

An interesting and I'm sure in some cases accurate view. I work in agriculture as a consultant and visit scores of farms every week and those that know how I spend my evenings and weekends are generally admiring of how hard I must work. I have farmer clients who buy both pork and lamb off me recognising its quality. The only dismissive farmer I've encountered is my neighbour, who regularly asks when I'm going to get some proper sheep and also regularly treats me to his displeasure that I bought several acres some years ago that he used to rent to let his neglected sheep die in. He's a git anyway. I admire farmers almost without exception and would secretly like to be one . I recognise that any work I need doing is usually so small that it takes longer for them to lug various bits of machinery down my ridiculously narrow lane than the job actually takes. So I am grateful and recognise that I do for a hobby what they do to keep axroof over their head and food in their children's mourhs

[Herdygirl]

I couldn't agree with you more Devonlad about farmers needing to put food into their children's mouths.  My contractor refuses to cut some small holders grass because they think it is perfectly alright that they make him wait for months, in some cases, for his money.  They also expect him to cart it and stack it which he has not the time to do.  He can find them chaps to do the carting and stacking but they do not want to pay them. I would not dream of asking someone to do a job unless I had the money ready and waiting for them when the job was finished.  One wannabe smallholder near me was complaining to me last year that she had asked my contractor to cut hers as usual but he had told her no, not this year, and she wanted to know why he wouldn't do hers - I told her its because she always pays her bills late (she owes me money) and she had the gall to say that everyone pays late and they would be foolish to pay on time........... I was speechless 

[devonlady]

I thank God for my neighbours! They will always help out if they can, be it to lend a lamb to a bereaved ewe, cut my hedges, top my fields, help with a difficult lambing and only last week took time out from the busy task of haymaking to help me load a dead pig into my Landrover by bringing a tractor and low loader down and this done with such kindness and sensitivity that it brings tears to my eyes to think about it.
On my side I always pay on the nail, either the same day or the day after (and in cash!) I always look out at their stock as I drive or walk along and If i could ever do them a good turn I would do so gladly.
By the way, if everyone who owes me money paid up, I would be able to afford the fencing that needs doing

[Me]

Good points FW, but I've fixed one line for you:

If you can't do the work yourself, then find a contractor and join the back of the queue

That's part of the problem - I can't find a contractor who's willing to do things like liming on our wee bit fields. 

Hi Womble, granulated lime spun out through a ground driven fert spinner, behing the car, 4x4 or quad - no need for Mr contractor (wear a dust mask!)

[Backinwellies]

I'll second that Me .......we have quad mounted spinner ... Spread. Calcifert 2 years now to good effect.