[Jon Feather]

Have you thought about buying in day old sexed hybrid layers?   Is there a reason that you want layers from that particular cross?





I have considered buying in day old and have done in the past but I want to see what this cross is like as a layer.  For my own interest I suppose.

[hughesy]

Raw chickens for human consumption are flying off the shelves every day so I would assume free range corn fed local chicken would find a market, and at a premium too.  I'm interested in anyone's experience to the contrary or otherwise...

Sorry to be blunt but if you believe that you're in for an expensive lesson. The kind of birds that yours will be will not impress the modern shopper one little bit. Granted they'll probably taste good but they'll be scrawny things with very little breast meat and not at all what the consumer wants. You'll need to spend loads on slaughtering and processing facilities to do it legally too. If you're going to hatch a lot of chicks be prepared to cull the males as soon as you can sex them. If you're lucky enough to find someone who buys frozen chicks for feeding a snake or maybe breeds birds of prey they might take them off your hands but monetary value is zilch.

[Thyme]

Apologies if this is a bit basic, but, chickens are really specialised these days, probably more than any other kind of livestock.  You could think of it as roughly four types:

1) Super egg producers, like your hybrids.  Lots of eggs, no market for their meat because they'll be skinny and not meaty like customers expect.

2) Traditional utility, like your Maran.  Not as many eggs, still no market for their meat because same as above, but reasonably worth eating your own if you are a carnivore.

3) Fashionably foodie traditional meat breed, like La Bresse.  Fewer eggs, you might be able to market the meat if you put some creativity into it.

4) Super meat birds, which are all hybrids, and don't live long enough to lay, but are shaped like people expect a chicken to be shaped.

If you really just want to experiment with your own eggs, then probably you should just hatch ten and get rid of the cockerels the way you always have.

[Marches Farmer]

If I wanted prolific layers of brown eggs I'd buy sexed chicks from a specialist supplier.  The Marans may bring brown eggs to the mix but will not improve the carcase enough to make a decent meat bird and will reduce the number of eggs laid.  Horses for courses.

[in the hills]

Agree with Thyme.  I'd be inclined to try just a small number ..... you might be disappointed with the results of the cross even as layers.



Cross posted with MF.

[chrismahon]

There is no guarantee that you will get brown egg layers from that cross Jon. Certainly they will be skinny egg layers and the cockerels will be unsuitable for human consumption. I don't know how soon they will sex, but you may be waiting at least 10 weeks so will need a lot of space for rearing them.


Personally it is an exercise I would never contemplate as we don't waste effort cross breeding. It can take a lifetime to get results worth having and time is too short. Plus there is a danger of corrupting breeds if some look like Marans and are sold on, only to produce a weird cross for the unfortunate owner when bred later.

[Stereo]

I would assume you'll get something like a speckldy (spelling?). Looks a bit like a cuckoo but lays more eggs and they will probably be mid brown but not dark. I don't see any reason not to do it just for your own flock but as said, there will be no market for the meat. We raise all our cockerels and eat them but for a lot of breeds it's just taking off what breast meat there is. Not even worth the time to fully process.

Worth it money wise? I reckon they cost me a fiver to get to 6 months so yes, it's worth it to me. Very little work as all they need is a shelter, clean water and feed. I know I could buy more chicken meat for less money but it wouldn't be half as good. We actually had supermarket chicken last night (sainsuburies So Organic chicken breast) and to be honest, I was unimpressed. Lots of meat but no actual taste to it. It's just a base to put sauce on.

[Anke]

All our spare males go for home consumption - our own. All we do is when we get really fed up with the crowing, we start to do two at a time (last years hatch was 14 cocks out of 20 hatched ), and take off the breast and leg, skinned not plucked. Makes good curry and coq-au-vin. Wonderful meat. Definitely totally uneconomic.... But it is the only chicken we eat, as I cannot bring myself to buy any in the supermarket or butcher... Won't even eat it in restaurants anymore.

As soon as we can sex them (mine are all Maran crosses to varying degree - mongrels really), the boys get separated and fed some corn and they are out on grass.

I cannot see how it would be economical on a larger scale, the only way the hybrid breeders make money is to use a chicken sexer early on, all the boys are killed and fed to zoo animals.

Being a smallholder and a vegetarian is a difficult situation...

[xnbacon]

We hatched some eggs from our layers with the idea that when the cocks were culled we would feed them to the dogs.  At the time they were eating supermarket chickens fairly regularly, so seemed a good solution as not that much meat on the birds  However, dogs wouldn't touch them and we ended up making soup with them (the chickens not the dogs.  Have never fathomed why they wouldn't eat them, perhaps they thought they were their friends?!!  Strange, the ways of the dog!! 

[Fleecewife]

We hatched some eggs from our layers with the idea that when the cocks were culled we would feed them to the dogs.  At the time they were eating supermarket chickens fairly regularly, so seemed a good solution as not that much meat on the birds  However, dogs wouldn't touch them and we ended up making soup with them (the chickens not the dogs.  Have never fathomed why they wouldn't eat them, perhaps they thought they were their friends?!!  Strange, the ways of the dog!!

Better that than thinking all chicks are their dinner 


<<< Killing all the cockerel chicks at day old isn't an option for us, so the only other option is to grow them on.  But what then?? >>>

As vegetarians, it sounds as if you need to be a bit more realistic as to what you can and can't do.  I appreciate that you want to do it your way, but an awful lot of your fellow smallholders are judging that rearing the cockerels to sell for human consumption isn't going to work.

Back to the drawing board?

[SallyintNorth]

Nicely put, FW 

The only other thought I've had would be adding value... For instance, making chicken-based ready meals and selling them.  You'd know it was scrawny old cockerel but if it was cooked well, the customers would just know it was a very tasty chicken meal.

However, in the same way as a non-tea-drinker generally makes dreadful cups of tea... 

[Anke]

Nicely put, FW 

The only other thought I've had would be adding value... For instance, making chicken-based ready meals and selling them.  You'd know it was scrawny old cockerel but if it was cooked well, the customers would just know it was a very tasty chicken meal.

The hoops you would have to jump through wrt legislation etc would make it economical suicide...

[SallyintNorth]

You're probably right, Anke.  If you already had a friend making ready meals, perhaps it might be feasible, but probably not otherwise.

Does anyone caponise these days?  Some folks I lived with in Devon had used to do this when they were younger - bred sex-linked birds, so they could identify the cockerels early, then caponised the boys.  They're easier to look after (don't have to keep them separate from the girls) and apparently can be eaten younger and taste better.  That's complete hearsay, I just wondered if anyone on here knew more about it.

[Fleecewife]

We had a very large turkey unit when I was a child, and the stags were all caponised, with a little pill under the skin of the head (my first experience of injections).  They weren't done at birth, but before they started to show male characteristics.  They then went off with the hens to slaughter.  We kept back some for breeding, just enough for replacements.

[lord flynn]

You're probably right, Anke.  If you already had a friend making ready meals, perhaps it might be feasible, but probably not otherwise.

Does anyone caponise these days?  Some folks I lived with in Devon had used to do this when they were younger - bred sex-linked birds, so they could identify the cockerels early, then caponised the boys.  They're easier to look after (don't have to keep them separate from the girls) and apparently can be eaten younger and taste better.  That's complete hearsay, I just wondered if anyone on here knew more about it.

I had a thread on this a few months back. It's illegal in the UK I think, at least to physically do it-noone seems to do it hormonally. Some companies offer 'christmas cockerels' but they seem to be bred for size and not caponised in any way. They still caponise in France.