Author Topic: Flukicide?  (Read 13832 times)

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Flukicide?
« on: June 01, 2015, 05:36:25 pm »
We have 2 young Highlands ( 4 and 5). Our land has not had sheep on it for at least 30 years ( that's the longest anyone round here can remember back to!) but it is quite wet in places and there are field ditches around us.
In 50 years of horse ownership I have never had to treat for fluke but we are getting our own sheep at the end of this month.
What do you advise re the horses?
Fluke them now, cos the land is damp and there are sheep hereabouts?
Fluke when our lambs arrive?
Or later?
Im paranoid about this as we have had an awful run of bad luck with horses over the last 3 years and we have lost 4 in that time. I want to do the very best for these ponies and cover every angle.
Many thanks
Is it time to retire yet?

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2015, 05:41:34 pm »
sorry...it sounds like they all died from disease.
One dropped dead in his field ( not here) of an aortic aneurism. One had a freak tendon injury and had to be PTS ( not here). One was PTS a couple of months ago due to broncho-spasm ( he had COPD). And the last died of grass sickness a couple of weeks ago 10 days after we sold him.
So no fluke/worm issues to date, or even disease, apart from the COPD I suppose.
Just thought Id clairify
Is it time to retire yet?

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2015, 08:29:27 pm »
Never had to treat for fluke in the horses. I would ask the advice of your vet.

Dans

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Spalding
    • Six Oaks
    • Facebook
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 12:00:06 am »
Not heard much about fluke in horses, they are quite resistant to it for some reason. Quick google suggests that triclabendazole based treatments will work (as long as your fluke aren't triclabendazole resistant), but that you should be careful as some flukicides are toxic to horses. http://www.clydevetgroup.co.uk/equine/newsletters/clydevet-equine-liver-fluke.pdf

I'd say get a FEC done (ask specifically for fluke testing) and see if your horses have it. You haven't had sheep on the land but deer and rabbits/hares will carry it so there could be fluke on your land already. But equally there may not be, just being damp doesn't automatically equal fluke.

If you're horses are clear at the moment I'd be doing FECs and if needed fluking the sheep with a triclabendazole based product when they arrive before they get turned out onto grazing to try and avoid contamination (they can still shed eggs for a few weeks after successful treatment though so they would need to be kept in for a while).

I would definitely ask for advice from the vet if you do decide to treat the horses, just to be sure you're not doing more harm than good.

Dans
9 sheep, 24 chickens, 3 cats, a toddler and a baby on the way

www.sixoaks.co.uk

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Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 06:56:19 pm »
We have lost horses due to fluke without any eggs showing in a FEC.  They came onto the land when a river overflowed its banks and now we do the horses for fluke every year.  If your land is clean and you fluke the sheep before grazing them you should not need to have a fluke problem.

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 07:42:18 pm »
Thank you Buttermilk. My vet said she wanted to FEC both the horses ( now and after the sheep arrive) and the new sheep when they get here. But I said to her I didn't think that fluke reliably showed up on FECs and she then muttered and it became pretty clear that she didn't know what she was doing. So no joy there.
She also said theres no flukicide that is licensed for horses? is that correct? Horses have been able to get liver fluke for donkeys years so surely theres a licensed treatment.
As you can tell, Im not very happy with the vets' experience
Is it time to retire yet?

verdifish

  • Joined Jan 2013
  • banffshire
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 07:47:44 pm »
There isn't a flukicide licenced for horses as they rarely get it !

Dans

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Spalding
    • Six Oaks
    • Facebook
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2015, 08:48:07 pm »
FEC and fluke need to be treated carefully. There are two issues.

If your vet does a normal flotation FEC she is unlikely to spot fluke eggs. The eggs collapse when the flotation solution is added. She would need to a special FEC, sedimentation, to check for fluke eggs. They sediment beautifully and if there are eggs in the faeces there's no reason a FEC wouldn't pick them up if done right.

The second issue is are the eggs actually in the faeces. Fluke don't shed eggs until they are mature, so for the first 9 or so weeks of infection you can quite happily get no eggs in faeces despite your animal being over-run with fluke. Once the fluke are adults they can shed eggs a little intermittently. Practically, this isn't an issue unless you have a very very low fluke burden. If you do have such a low burden it probably isn't doing your animals any harm (I'm talking 10 or less fluke in the liver).

There is a blood test that can be done to check for antibodies for liver fluke. However it only really tells you if the animal has ever been exposed. If you know the animal has never been treated for liver fluke then a positive antibody test will mean that the animal likely has fluke (although if the animal is old enough it could have had fluke that have then died). If you don't know the treatment history then a positive test doesn't tell you much. Likewise if the animal has only ever grazed on your land and it comes up positive it will tell you that at some point there was at least 1 fluke on your land, but if the grazing history is unknown it doesn't tell you much.

If you don't trust your vet with the FEC or any testing, you can send samples off to get tested. AHVLA and SAC do FEC for fluke. If they offer you a new 'coproantigen ELISA test' don't take it. It is costly and doesn't work all that well in horse samples.

In terms of is there a licensed treatment for horses. I can quite happily accept that there isn't one. It costs the drug companies money for each drug they licence for each different animal (they have to do all the safety testing). This is the reason that despite goats getting the same worms as sheep there are no treatments licensed in the UK for goats. If it's not commercially viable for the company to go through the testing to license it then they won't do it, vets will just prescribe off licence instead.

Hope that helps.

Dans
9 sheep, 24 chickens, 3 cats, a toddler and a baby on the way

www.sixoaks.co.uk

www.facebook.com/pg/sixoakssmallholding

www.goodlife.sixoaks.co.uk

farmvet

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2015, 11:46:08 pm »
The new faecal test can detect fluke at 3 weeks by screening for digestive enzymes. It seems very good in cattle & sheep and can be used on a pooled sample so isn't that expensive. Fasinex can be used off licence on but you need a vet prescription. Alternative brands are available but didn't have data for use in horsss last time I phoned. Yes horses can get & die of fluke

Dans

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Spalding
    • Six Oaks
    • Facebook
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2015, 12:28:49 am »
No the new faecal test can't work from 3 weeks, not even the manufacturer claims this.

I just spent the last 4 years studying this test. The earliest it'll pick up in experimentally challenged animals is 4-5 weeks.

In naturally exposed sheep that have a low burden you may well get eggs in faeces before you get a positive test. In cattle it is worse and in horses it is pretty awful unless you really play around with the cut-offs.

On a pooled sample it really only works if most of the flock is infected with a decent burden of fluke. If you only have a few animals infected or if the burden in the flock is low you are better off with a FEC.

It's quite awful that they are advertising these tests as working based only on an old version of the test which was evaluated on single samples from experimentally challenged animals.

If you want a test to determine treatment outcome though then the new faecal test is awesome, it'll tell you in about a week if the treatment worked or not, but it needs to have a positive result before hand, and in certain situations it just can't pick up an infection.

Dans
9 sheep, 24 chickens, 3 cats, a toddler and a baby on the way

www.sixoaks.co.uk

www.facebook.com/pg/sixoakssmallholding

www.goodlife.sixoaks.co.uk

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2015, 08:11:55 pm »
Yikes!  :-\
Is it time to retire yet?

mowhaugh

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Scottish Borders
    • Facebook
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2015, 09:25:00 pm »
I suspect many more horses have had issues with fluke than we realise.  I would get Westgate to do FECs for you, they are experts in this (but as said above, you need to say you want fluke test), and Gillian who owns the company is very friendly and helpful - and has highlands!

farmvet

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2015, 11:39:37 pm »
Thanks for the info Dan. Interesting. My source was the lab. It was a new test on offer & they just emailed the blurb so I think I'll go with your personal experience!

Kimbo

  • Joined Feb 2015
  • Anglezarke, Lancashire
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2015, 09:03:26 pm »
thank you all. Im now more worried but sounds like Westgate might be the answer. Do you have a web address for them?
Many thanks


UPDATE: I found Westgate thanks and Ive emailed them. Thanks all
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 10:09:16 am by Kimbo »
Is it time to retire yet?

Dans

  • Joined Jun 2012
  • Spalding
    • Six Oaks
    • Facebook
Re: Flukicide?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2015, 09:46:09 pm »
No problem. I'd be happy to pass some documents your way Farmvet.

Dans
9 sheep, 24 chickens, 3 cats, a toddler and a baby on the way

www.sixoaks.co.uk

www.facebook.com/pg/sixoakssmallholding

www.goodlife.sixoaks.co.uk

 

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