[moony]

Seeking a bit of advice as at the moment we are finding things a bit hard. We have always reared pet lambs and never really had any trouble. There is always a risk when you by them in that they haven't had colostrum and may carry something but its never really been a problem for us. Out of the number we get we might expect to lose a couple before they reach their end destination. This year we had 30 or so but the last 2 days has been carnage with us losing 7 and another 1 on its way, and looking back 2 we lost a few days previous were probably the same. All are of different ages with those struck ranging from 5 days to my lovely texels at 7 weeks. Some are inside, some are out at grass but they have all had indirect contact at some point, and one was put on one of our ewes when it first came but she never took to it. Its not impossible she was the cause as her lamb couldn't coordinate to stand for 24 hrs, then did after various jabs of steroids, selenium and vit B1 before having a massive fit and dying. The vet seems to think its an aggressive form of meningitis on the pets but even after antibiotics we have had another 3 that seemed fine just drop. They are going wobbly and then having fits with their necks arched back all in the space of 30 mins or so. A large number have been scouring very badly with mucus soupy poos. Some look just like spit, others have creamy pus consistency to them although the vet seems unconcerned with this. He has chopped one up and seen inside. All appears very healthy but Im really worried we are going to lose the lot, which financially would absolutely kill me. We had a terrible year last year losing a massive amount of stock after moving to new land so are living on a financial knife edge, and while I love the sheepies, Im close to giving up. In the last 10 months we have lost around 100 lives, and that is about the same as I have lost in 9 years with 10 times the amount of stock on. Its just ridiculous. Has anyone had any sort of experience like this or gone through periods like this? Its at the stage now where Im scared of opening the door to look at them as I know something will be dead.

[SallyintNorth]

Just sending some  ; it must be absolutely horrible for you.  It's so upsetting when we do everything we can to look after them, and then something like this happens.   

The vet is best placed to find the cause and suggest a plan of action; the only thought I had was did you vaccinate the lambs when they got to 3 weeks?

[Hellybee]

Heartbreaking, rooting for you and hope they find a reason pronto, did they take bloods, that takes days to come back though doesn't it.  Big huge xx

[mowhaugh]

The things that spring to mind are things like lamb dysentry, or especially in the case of healthy looking older lambs just dropping dead, pulpy kidney, although if they are from vaccinated stock then vaccinated when old enough, shouldn't be an issue.  With those level of losses, I know it is sometimes hard to throw good money after bad, but I would be getting PMs done to identify the cause, for now and future years, and as Sally says, if they are not vaccinated, do so, I BELIEVE, although I would confirm with a vet rather than take my word for it, that although 3 weeks is the recommened age for their first jab they can have it at 2.  Hope things start to look up for you soon.

[Old Shep]

Sympathies to you.  I don't think you're a million miles from us near Skipton.  We have had at least a dozen lambs die within the first 48 hours from something we can't put a name to.  The common denominator is a nodding head (think Stevie Wonder).  PM  suggested sceptecemia but inconclusive.  Don't know if that's linked to what you are going through - but its soul destroying isn't it? Hope things improve.  Would it be worth giving all the surviving lambs antibiotics as a precaution?

[paddy1200]

I'm no expert, far from it, but to me the clue is in the 'new land' part of your woes.
Could it be something lingering in the environment?
To lose so many in the short time you have been there would give me concerns.

[Hellybee]

What s they're forage like, are they taking in enough fibre?  xx

[moony]

Didn't lose any yesterday which is a bit of a change. All surviving lambs were jabbed 48hrs ago with a long lasting antibiotic, so despite losing two after the jabs Im hopeful that it should have cleared the rest up of anything. When we took one in on Sunday the first thing he said was that will be meningitis when he saw it fitting. It died there and he chopped it up immediately in front of us. Everything inside was completely healthy. The only thing he could see was a slight reddening of the spinal cord near the tail which suggested to him that an infection has entered through the tail and tracked up via the spine to the brain. He took samples of pretty much everything but we are still awaiting the results. The next step would be to send one up to Penrith to have its brain looked at. They are all off farmers I know and all their ewes I'm assured are fully vaccinated.

Regarding the new land being the problem, that is my thinking entirely although the vet doesn't seem to think there would be anything here that would cause such losses. My concern is something, maybe a heavy metal or something washing down off the deforested area above that might have changed the dynamics of the land. I know the last farmer here lost a fair bit of stock as there are skulls everywhere. He also got in trouble for not shifting his dead ones. Its also possible that its just the change to our stock. The land here is much poorer and so much wetter. Maybe the quality of grass at the last place was carrying them through. They were also nowhere near any other sheep at the last place where as here they are surrounded and the land itself has only had sheep on it for decades. Within a couple of months of being here they were riddled with lice/possibly scab and blind with pinkeye which still keeps reappearing.

Hopefully things will pick up but it is so disheartening.

[Rosemary]

Can't offer any advice but my heart bleeds for you 

[Remy]

How horrific for you  .  I did go through one year with awful losses - not lambs but adults and youngsters, I took three for post mortems but all came back inconclusive, as some had been part scavenged and none were freshly dead (less than 24 or more ideally 12 hours) which is the key to a successful PM.  They should go in as soon as possible after they die, which was not possible at the time.  Despite the fact they were all up to date with wormers, vaccinations etc the vet said there was an exceptional amount of worm problems he'd seen that year, but only one of the sheep had a larger than average worm count.  It's a very expensive exercise when nothing beneficial comes out of it.


I never did get to the bottom of what was the problem, I had thought it was one particular field as most losses occurred there but not all!  It's not the same as what has happened to you but I know too well the feeling of wanting to give up, and wondering how many you are going to lose the next day!  Touch wood I have not had losses like that since -  only the occasional older sheep dropping and newborn lambs stillborn.


I hope you do get to find out what is happening so you can move forwards 

[Fleecewife]

I'm wondering if your land may be 'sheep sick'.  If so, then if you can find an alternative then a few years without sheep would be of benefit.

You mention a deforested bit above your fields - is this still churned up?  Land which has lain undisturbed for decades can be quite foul when dug up.  Or maybe there has been some excavation on your own land which has brought foul soil to the top.

Would it help to lime your ground once the sheep are off?

Just fumbling around trying to find possible causes.  I hope you solve the problem, which is so horrible for you.

[Old Shep]

Fleecewife please could you explain about land being "sheep sick"?  All our problems are in one particular field which has been lambed on every year for 20 years now.

[Fleecewife]

I suppose it just means that every worm and disease you wish you didn't have has had years to build up in the soil, without respite.  A similar thing happens in polytunnels apparently, so sometimes they have to be moved.  With livestock, I would think that a couple of years used for hay or similar , plus some good grass care, would help the ground to pick up. Ideally there should be a full crop rotation, but I certainly don't have enough land to do that and nor do many smallholders.   I don't really know what else to do about it as it's not happened here - yet - but I'm sure someone else will have more experience.

[moony]

I believe it was deforested 2 or 3 years ago, certainly within the last 5 years, so has settled but has altered the water course as it follows the tracks and it doesn't hold any water up there anymore.  There is the remnants of a track going through the land which seems to cause the most problems. The biggest problem for me is that the land surrounds the house, so I'm reluctant to give it up. Going to have to get it all tested and see if there is anything running down that shouldn't be. Ideally I would run some sucklers or our ponies on it for a year just to get something different on but its Higher Level Stewardship land so I'm not allowed. The biggest problem is it was such a bad year last year we are in a real financial crisis so it has to work this year. The pressure from that is ridiculous.

[Treud na Mara]

No useful advice to give just heartfelt  and  you can get to the bottom of this.  And thank you for sharing - all experience is welcome, even if it's not what we would all wish for.