[Tregwyr]

Hi all,

I have just had my first twin Ryeland ewe lambs!! Mum delivered at 8.15 last night in the field, by herself but then an experienced farmer friend of mine arrived and we led her to a pen. I was convinced she had twins because of the size of her (we didn't have her scanned) but my farmer friend needing some convincing. More than an hour later I convinced him to examine her and sure enough twin two was there with one foot back. He successfully delivered and resuscitated her but mum is only interested in twin one, allowing twin one to feed and headbutting twin two. I have read all the posts I can find and I am successfully keeping them in close quarters with mum able to see and smell both and bringing them out to feed from mum every two hours. They both spend about 2 minutes suckling vigorously.
Now my question - my friend came just after I had fed them from mum and felt underneath mum, telling me that she doesn't have enough milk for both of them and that I should remove twin two and bottle feed. As an experienced mum of four myself I am aware that the suckling itself will bring on the milk and as it has been less than 24 hours should I persevere or should I top up tonight? If so, should I do it with a teat and bottle or tube?
Any advice much appreciated!!

[moony]

Personally I would top up with a bottle and stuff the ewe with food and water. Some would say tube if you still want it to suckle but I have never had a problem with them still suckling while being topped with a bottle.

[Tregwyr]

Thanks, will try. 

[Anke]

Tubing may be quicker late at (and during) night. I have always tubed just to get back to bed, but that maybe selfish... and I always have goatsmilk, so much nearer the real stuff than Lamlac will be. If you use Lamlac make it up more dilute than it says on the bag, as it otherwise can easily cause stomach upsets.

[daveh]

Anke wrote,

>If you use Lamlac make it up more dilute than it says on the bag, as it otherwise can easily cause stomach >upsets.

I'm having trouble getting my head round this comment. Are you saying the manufacturers don't know how much their product should be diluted?

Regards, Dave

[SallyintNorth]

Personally I would top up with a bottle and stuff the ewe with food and water. Some would say tube if you still want it to suckle but I have never had a problem with them still suckling while being topped with a bottle.

This 

[Tregwyr]

Thanks for all your replies.

Mum is still quite aggressive towards lamb 2, we are getting lamb 2 to suckle whilst restraining mum and giving mum ewe nuts to distract her. We are then topping up the lamb from a bottle if she doesn't feed for long enough. They are all out on grass in our garden today (day 2) but we've had put a halter on mum to stop her butting lamb 2.

She is being very stubborn.   

[shep53]

You need to understand that she hates this lamb  and would happily kill it ,  your choices are        remove and bottle feed   ,   foster on to another ewe ( give/ sell  to some else to foster ) , restrain her 24hrs a day   ( halter / yoke / dog collar ) and suckle the lamb  until she accepts it   ,   but I think its to late and  she will always hate it .    Bottle feeding probably  best bet

[Anke]

No, some ewes take up to a week to accept their lambs and will then be the best mums ever... I would keep her penned with the lambs next to her and hold them on to suckle every few hours. She will almost certainly come round. If she hasn't got enough milk that's another matter, but if you only take one lamb off you will need another bottle lamb to go with it... Depends what is less work - topping up two lambs several times per day or have having one (and preferably two) to feed completely 4 times per day.

Making Lamlac up to full strength does cause diarrhoea and it is easier on the lamb to make it up a but more dilute until they are well established on it. Especially if they also have milk from the ewe, which in the first few days is also very rich...

[SallyintNorth]

You can pretty much always - 99% of the time - get a ewe to accept a single lamb.

Genuine success when she favours one lamb over the other is less common.  I usually pen them for 2-3 days, then if she's still not letting the less favoured lamb suck, take it off.

However, a clever lamb will learn how and when to nip in and get a suck, so as long as mum has enough milk for two, you can make it work.  I find it best to pen them together, provide a safe place for the lamb within the pen, support it for a feed at most twice a day - so it has to learn how to nip in and get sucks here and there between times.  When you aren't needing to support it and it's not hungry, it's time to let them into a larger area.  If the less-favoured lamb is still managing to stay full, mark it so you will know it and put them out.

Continue to monitor, because, in order of likelihood (in my experience) these are the potential outcomes:

• lamb does ok but is spotted 'pinching' off other ewes - augmenting the milk it gets from its own mum.  If this compromises the other ewes and/or their lambs, you may need to take the less-favoured lamb off and reinstate it on the bottle
• lamb does ok for a while then starts to slip and is taken off and continued on the bottle.  As the lambs' demands grow, she isn't producing enough for two; the less-favoured lamb ekes out a living on what it can get from her, plus grass, cake, and whatever else it can find - but isn't developed enough to really do well on limited milk, so fails to thrive.
• as above but failure to thrive isn't noticed, and lamb disappears or is found dead or dying
• both lambs reared to weaning, no issues

[Hellybee]

Mmmm I'd take twin two away x

[Melmarsh]

If I have a ewe that appears short on milk at first ,I top up with powdered milk as per instruction and, touchwood, never had a scour problem. I have twins at the moment being topped up and at nearly 2weeks are taking less of their own accord.
I have also used goats milk when I had a milking herd and never had a problem either.
Re the time to accept a lamb, a little different but I had a lamb , lamb last year and needed a c-section and it took her three days before she would stand still to let him suck but then all was great so good luck and I hope all works out well 

[Tregwyr]

Thanks all,

Day 5 and still not accepting her. I am holding mum still 4 times a day and insisting twin 2 feeds, then giving her the rest on the bottle. She is in the garden during the day and as long as twin 2 keeps away, there is no aggression by being in the same fenced area. However, if twin 2 goes in to feed, mum butts her. I don't want to turn mum and twin 1 out into the field and keep twin 2 in the garden but I'm worried if I turn them all out into the field, Mr Fox gets a feast and mum wouldn't be happier! What to do?

[SallyintNorth]

You have a pet lamb.  Your choice is to take it off mum completely (which, if you have any other pet lambs to keep it company, would be my own choice) or to top it up in the field.  As you say, there is a risk that a fox would get it - but it's not so very easy for a fox to catch and kill an active, healthy lamb once it's more than a few days old.  (Which isn't to say it couldn't happen, of course.  Sorry.)

Would you be able to bring the family in overnight ?  While the lamb is vulnerable?

[Tregwyr]

Thanks Sally. We have a pet lamb. I think we knew it in our hearts but read so much about persevering - your will is greater than theirs, will accept up to a week etc that we felt we ought to keep trying. Mum gets agitated when we put little V on, so last night and this morning we fed her by bottle. We don't have any others yet - only one set of twins from one ewe so far so no other company. She and her sister sleep near each other (big sister between mum and V) and we bring them in all in at night - we'll try putting out in the field and keep bringing them in. Thanks for your help.