Author Topic: Likely twins.... First (breech) pulled..... Would you pull the second ? (Read 3482 times)

FiB · « **on:** March 24, 2015, 09:36:21 pm »

or give her a chance? Third time mule mother, always delivered twins easily but could only see tips of 2 hooves for 5 hours this evenening so eventually went in and it was a straight forward (Scouse the pun) breech... Big lamb, both fine. Luckily I brought her in due to forcast and lack of progress, so she is penned and happy (she was looking fine for the 5 hours, eating in between the pawing and getting up and down). Firstly what is the chance of her carrying twins this time (we don't scan ) and secondly do folks always expect to pul a second? I've looked in Tim Tyne, veterinary handbook and sheep ailments, can't find advice........ thanks in advance lovelies xxxx

FiB · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2015, 09:44:14 pm »

And also, is it possible that she could have delivered a breech without assistance? Down in all the books as a malpresentation.... But always worried about intervening unnecessarily. She usually pops them out like peas....

Jukes Mum · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2015, 10:11:15 pm »

Can't offer any advice, but well done so far x

Sbom · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2015, 10:15:07 pm »

If you gently bump her tummy just in front of her bag you shoul easily feel if there is another. No reason why she shouldn't pop the next out easily. Second normally ones quite quickly after the first....

FiB · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2015, 10:19:53 pm »

Thanks , nature answered at the same time! Second popped out by the time I went down 30 mins later :-) . 2 very wrinkly, very long legged mule texel crosses.

Sbom · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2015, 10:20:38 pm »

Brilliant

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2015, 11:25:47 pm »

Glad you got a good result

For future reference, I would pull the second yes. If one's been stuck for a while the other could be in trouble behind. And of course it could have been 3...

On could she have delivered it herself... I guess it's feasible when they're coming backwards, legs first, but unlikely as the head isn't engaged in the canal. For a true breech, ie tail first, legs tucked up under belly, then no, they can't deliver them that way.

FiB · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2015, 06:32:01 am »

Brill thanks.... so no pause for mothering/ recovery ? Just straight in. Ooooch. I have small hands, well lubed..... Still made me wince!

Just out of interest where does all this looses skin come from? Red bum says Lola (the ewe) was got by the texel ram..... But I swapped Rams to the bowmont and they are due form today? COULD she have shagged but not taken and it be the first or the Bowmont crosses (I'm expecting baggy skin there). Not seen such wrinkles before. Macs on for turnout this morning as expecting bitter rain all night tonight. The long legged lovely is the one I pulled - she's a ewe lamb so ideally I would keep her..... Is breech presentation a matter of chance? Any reason why you wouldn't lkeep Her (other than her not coming on very well)?

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2015, 10:01:47 am »

BH says poor presentation can have an element of inheritance, but whilst I've been here we haven't had the same cows do it more than once. So personally I wouldn't let them stop me keeping a ewe lamb on.

On going straight back in after a breech or otherwise held up / prolonged birth, especially where there are or might be triplets - you won't do any lasting damage to the ewe (but of course give her antiobiotics if you've been in and vitamins after a difficult or assisted birth) and if you delay you may have a dead lamb. So yes, in general I'd always rather let the ewe do things at her own pace but in such a case I'd put the lamb or lambs first.

With an experienced ewe, especially something roomy like a mule, and very hormonal and maternal, I wouldn't worry about the intervention causing any issues. Sometimes with other, less maternal and/or less roomy sheep you may get some resistance to the lamb if she's had a difficult birth - but they usually do come round after it's had a few feeds.

We do get loose skin on some of our Texel lambs; BH always says they are the lambs that turn out the best. Can't see the skin under the macs in your pics, so can't say whether these look loose in the same way.

Was the Bowmont tup raddled? If so, you'd expect him to mark any ewes he tupped on the first day - but some other colours won't show over red, of course. (Always start with the lighter colours

. And don't use blue if you are also using yellow then green

)