[SallyintNorth]

Our vet recommends jagging all bought-in cattle with a double dose of Pen & Strep.  To be fair, he'd prefer that we don't buy in stock 

[mowhaugh]

Sorry for hijacking the thread, and thanks for the good wishes!

[SallyintNorth]

My neighbour jabs *every* bought in ewe with Alamycin.

If he buys in a load of ewes every year then this may seem excessive.  However, if it's just a pen or two occasionally, it's maybe not such a bad idea.  It could save bringing in a bacterium to the farm which the incumbents haven't met before, which could result in even greater use of a/bs...

I must say, though, that one thing we think about always when using a/bs is that we don't want to harm the animal's gut flora.  We often hold off giving a/bs to young calves if there's an alternative therapy for this reason.  And BH isn't really very happy with the double dose of Pen&Strep for bought-in bovines for this reason.  However, I've tried it both ways with calves we've bought for the Jerseys to rear, and I agree with the vet. 

But a single jag of oxytet or penicillin once in an animals lifetime, and when it isn't a majority of the flock or herd, probably isn't going to have any impact on resistance, which is what this debate is about.

It's more the routine use of a/bs as growth promotors (which still happens in some systems, under different guises), routine use of prophylactic a/bs unnecessarily, and poor dosing discipline - underdosing and the non-completion of courses - which cause the problems, isn't it?

[Foobar]

If he buys in a load of ewes every year then this may seem excessive.

He does; it is!  I've seen the trays of bottles in the back of his truck.
He mumbled something about it helping to prevent toxo?

[Me]

Linking in slightly from another recent thread. I've been watching an S4C programme on a fairly typical farm this evening where policy is to give oral spectam to every lamb plus a jab of LA antibiotic under the skin. Added to that a fair proportion must be assisted by the size of the lambs so the mothers will likely be needing a jab too. That's five doses of antibiotic per ewe with twins.   

I don't think that's at all typical of farms in this area, at least.  The expense, never mind anything else, must be considerable.  Most folks I know try to head off problems by using good shepherding skills, not medication.

Ok I should have emphasised the fairly more and typical less! Lets say its for the sake of increased discussion  That being said they are certainly not alone. I can think of several farms doing the same off the top of my head and many more regularly giving antibiotics inappropriately. 

[SallyintNorth]

If he buys in a load of ewes every year then this may seem excessive.

He does; it is!  I've seen the trays of bottles in the back of his truck.
He mumbled something about it helping to prevent toxo?

If there is reason to suspect enzootic abortion, then yes Alamycin can save some of the as yet unborn lambs.  I don't think it has any effect in preventing toxoplasma abortion.

But if I were in his shoes I would vaccinate my own ewes - against enzo and toxo - and only buy in vaccinated ewes.

[Penninehillbilly]

I would use A/b's only as needed, maybe large farms work on 'kill before it's up and running (ie disease)'.
but it drives me crazy to see all the adverts for hands soaps, worktop cleaner, now even washing liquids. I'm thinking the odd dose to our stock is the least of our problems.
And it does scare me what the future holds, having had to have AB's a few times last year for blood poisoning, I might not have been here now if resistant.

[Backinwellies]

 (NZ farms don't use a lot of antibiotics and produce lambs very cheaply - possibly at the expense of animal welfare on an individual level).

I have spoken recently to a young person who worked in NZ for a while ... when shearing ewes are treated so badly some just lay down and are left for dead afterwards!  Yes cheap meat but at what cost to the animals?


As  for antib's  don't forget that people not completing courses of ab's is a major cause of resistance.

[twizzel]

We only treat with antibiotics if the animal is symptomatic. Today I jabbed a lamb with alamycin as it has suspected joint ill. I don't jab unless there is a valid reason, that's both sheep and cows on the farm.

[Foobar]

If he buys in a load of ewes every year then this may seem excessive.

He does; it is!  I've seen the trays of bottles in the back of his truck.
He mumbled something about it helping to prevent toxo?

If there is reason to suspect enzootic abortion, then yes Alamycin can save some of the as yet unborn lambs.  I don't think it has any effect in preventing toxoplasma abortion.

But if I were in his shoes I would vaccinate my own ewes - against enzo and toxo - and only buy in vaccinated ewes.

yes, exactly, i agree - there has to be a better method than blanket application of ABs.

[princesslayer]

We only treat with antibiotics if the animal is symptomatic. Today I jabbed a lamb with alamycin as it has suspected joint ill. I don't jab unless there is a valid reason, that's both sheep and cows on the farm.

So you don't jab every ewe you assist, or does it depend on the level of assistance given?