[Foobar]

My 6 month old welsh sheepdog will soon be moving onto adult food and I'm trying to decide which food to buy.  He'll be a part time worker as I work full time so he'll only be working at weekends or some mornings/evenings.  (We do a lot of walking too, so he won't be sat around )
He's currently on half half Aurtarky Puppy / James Wellbeloved Junior  (he's on that mix because we wanted to lower the protein % a bit as he was starting to get a teeny bit hyper).  His mum is gluten intolerant, but we aren't sure if he has inherited this, however, I want him on a wheat free diet if possible.


Can anyone suggest some brands of dog food?  (working dog pref so that it's vat free )
I was looking at Skinners Duck & Rice, but would 22% protein be too high for him if he's not working every day?


Any suggestions welcomed

[Rosemary]

We fed ours Burns all their lives (Meg's 14 and Tess was 14 when she died). Both Border Collies but not working. Tess was a picky eater when she was a pup, but she was happy to eat Burns. It's rice / chicken / lamb based.

[Jukes Mum]

Have you tried raw? It's not for everyone, but I have working gundogs and they have just finished the shooting season looking better than they ever had. None of them have dropped any condition and one has even gained a bit of weight! You wouldn't believe by looking at them that some of them had worked  days a week.

[Foobar]

Would love to do raw but its not practical for me.


Burns - I didn't realise they did a working dog version, thanks.  The Active one at 24% might be too much though, their Alert one for assistance dogs at 18.5% might be a better bet.

[WhiteHorses]

My collies are on Burns Alert which has plenty enough energy for occassional work. All our family's collies have been fed burns successfully for years now.

This is the chicken & rice version:
Composition:
Brown Rice (67%), Chicken Meal (20%), Oats, Peas, Salmon Oil (0.93%), Chicken Oil, Sunflower Oil, Seaweed, Vitamins & Minerals, Green Tea Extract, Grape Seed Extract.

Analytical Constituents:
Crude Protein 18.5%, Crude Oil & Fats 7.5%, Crude Fibre 2.2%, Crude Ash 6.0%, Moisture 8.0%, Copper 18mg/kg Sodium 0.12%, Calcium 1.15%, Phosphorus 0.70%, Magnesium 0.10%, Potassium 0.32%, Chloride 0.17%, Sulphur 0.28%, Essential Fatty Acid 1.95%,

Nutritional Additives:
Vitamin A 25,000 iu/kg, Vitamin D3 2,000 iu/kg, Vitamin E 200 iu/kg, Vit C 50 iu/kg, Calcium Iodate Anhydrous 1.5mg/kg, Sodium Selenite 0.6 mg/kg, Ferrous Sulphate Monohydrate 160mg/kg, Cupric Sulphate Pentahydrate 55mg/kg, Manganous Sulphate Monohydrate 100mg/kg, Zinc Sulphate Monohydrate 130mg/kg

[SallyintNorth]

If your pup was getting hyper on his puppy food, I'd say that 22% is too much for a collie dog in very light work, yes.  We feed Sneyd's Gold for the main ration, and I feed half that with half biscuit-and-tinned meat.  The Sneyd's is 22% but the meat and biscuits are 10%, so I guess mine are getting about 15-16%.  If Dot gets more protein than that, she's high.  (Skip can handle it, he's a laid back dog these days.)

When I was on the moorland farm, the dogs had to work much harder.  The general running about was on tougher terrain, and they were out and about on it for longer.  When we gathered the sheep, that was real work - a full gather of the whole 500+ ewes from the largest moorland area took more than 2 hours on a good day, and all day when there were ewes with lambs out there.  It was a two-dog job. 

Even so, I fed them half-and-half as above unless we were doing a lot of work, then they'd get an extra half or full ration of the higher-protein feed on the day before, the days we were gathering, and the day after.

Autarky Adult is 23% protein, which I would say is a lot for a collie dog unless it's doing real hard work every day.  If you are wanting to avoid wheat, you won't want to feed a biscuit alongside... so maybe rice?  Or bake your own wheat-free biscuit?  Or use a maize meal?

Until I had collies, all my dogs and cats had raw meat (with biscuits), and were very healthy on it.  However collies have evolved to do a lot of work on a little input, and I haven't found that feeding raw is a good plan with them.  (And even when I was feeding raw, it was only 4-6oz per day for a 25kg companion dog, plus biscuits, an egg every other day, and leg bones to chew on.) 


Having read the recent posts, I think I might give Burns' a try!

[Foobar]

Brill thanks for all that info.  I might just try the Burns Alert then.    I can always bump it up with some eggs or meat if we are going for a day long walk in the mountains etc.

[doganjo]

I would agree, my Brittanys are on 18%, I'd never see them if they were on anything higher.   But I vary their  food as they get bored very quickly, haven't tried Burns yet though.  That may be next.

[Marches Farmer]

One of ours had a "delicate" tum when he was young but we now give Chappie (19.5% protein) when on light work, which he's fine with.  .

[funkyfish]

CSJ do a fantastic range of food, all very well priced as well. A big range of protein and fat %. The are mainly online (not the easiest site to navigate around) but deliver promptly.

[Foobar]

...well ... I tried the Burns Alert.  It started off okay, but after a couple of months you can see that he's finding it hard to keep the weight on, and I'm having to feed loads more than the packet says.  And now this week he's started totally turning his nose up at it! Oh and he still farts!

Anyways, I've spent the past few days researching, and looking on http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/, and am going to switch to Millie's Wolfheart instead.  Which is a no-grain, no cereal, no rice, just meat/fish and veg/fruit diet.  (Like Orijen, but a UK producer.) They do a selection of varieties for different activities, and all designed for working dogs so VAT free.  My dog has literally wolfed down the samples so at least I know he will eat it!

It seems that the concept of high protein => hyperactivity is a myth.  It's the cheap carbs that give the energy boosts.

[Foobar]

Update: having switched to Millies (https://www.millieswolfheart.co.uk/) I can report that the farting has stopped, he's starting to put weight back on, his coat looks fab, and his poos are superb! (consistently smaller & firmer).  Oh and he's calmer too - and that's on a 35% protein food!


Would recommend this food brand to anyone!

[Old Shep]

That's interesting!  Millies is indeed a very good kibble.

I used to be very adamant that high protein foods made dogs hyper, then switched to raw.  Raw definitely calms them down although its a high protein % - and many others find the same - this is very similar to your experience with Millies.  I wonder if it is to do with the source of protein - if its from real meat and bones, rather than plant based proteins plus beaks and claws etc.

[Foobar]

Yeah, now that I've read up more on it it seems obvious.  It's the carbs/sugar that cause the hyper-ness, not the protein %.  The one i'm using is the 80% meat/fish, 20% fruit/veg mix (35% crude protein).  But if you have harder working dogs that need more "instant energy" then they do other mixes - all the way up to 50% meat/fish, 50% fruit/veg (which has 24% protein i think).  The meat/fish proteins are muscle building/repair and the carbs/fats are energy giving, so if you want a calmer dog then you need to lower it's carb intake.

[doganjo]

I'm about to try raw food with my hyper youngster.  Just ordered a mixture of packs and nuggets from Natures menu.  I'm wary of just giving her bones, mince, veg, etc in whatever mix - good to know how much to give her and that it's ready for her to eat.

Ordered chicken wings too since it's Freckles 14th birthday today - she can have a late party next Tuesday when it all arrives