[Jukes Mum]

I know that this has en discussed before but I can't seem to find a consensus.
For people lambing a very small amount to sheep, what do you do about Haptavac?
My ewes need doing 4 weeks before lambing, then the lambs need doing twice.
Obviously you should buy a whole new bottle each time but I do recall discussion that the 'use within 10 hours' was just because the vaccine's efficacy had not been tested beyond this.
Would one risk this or not? £75 (three bottles) is a lot to spend on a small amount of sheep if it is not necessary, but conversely would you risk the new lambs by using the old vaccine?

[Bionic]

I personally wouldn't risk it. Maybe there is someone else nearish to you who has the same problem and you could go halves.
Last year I ended up giving my bottles away, having only used a few doses. I would rather do that than it go to waste.

[Backinwellies]

Sally  ... will be doing mine in a couple of weeks do you want the excess for your ewes?

[Obrwynnant]

Speak to your vet too. Ours sells us small quantities of stuff, dosed up in individual syringes, although not asked them about Heptavac P yet.

[beagh-suffolks]

we vaccinated all my ewes today an we went through quite a few, us and our neighbor (he has over 100 sheep) buy it in bulk together so its cheaper and we can finish off what ever is not used

[Welshcob]

Obviously you should buy a whole new bottle each time but I do recall discussion that the 'use within 10 hours' was just because the vaccine's efficacy had not been tested beyond this.

I am a farm vet looking at lots of dead lambs every year, mostly of clostridial disease and pasteurellosis, and would never ever risk vaccinating them ineffectually with a vaccine that has been opened for weeks. It really does go off, the drug companies don't test it because there is no point in doing so - purified proteins do not last and they are not going to spend money to show something they already know (this comes from someone - me - who's done a PhD on protein purification).
Some bacterial proteins might last a few more days than others but all slowly degrade sooner or later and if you inject with a bottle open for more than 12 hours or so you are just wasting time as it is fresh water by then.

If your lambs are not going to be kept for breeding I would advise to keep the Heptavac P for the ewes booster and give Ovivac P or Lambivac to the lambs (2x injections full course). These two are cheaper than Heptavac.
Also as already suggested, you need to find someone near you that is willing to share the cost of the bottle and that way you can all gain. Worth asking your vet if they know anyone in your same situation, we put people in touch for this reason all the time.

[Jukes Mum]

Welshcob- Thank you so much, this is just the definitive answer I needed

[Buttermilk]

Due to an oversight I have ewes due to lamb any day and not got round to vaccinating them.  Is it too late?  Should I now wait until the lambs are 3 weeks and do all the sheep?

[Welshcob]

Hi Buttermilk, yes sorry is too late now to vaccinate the ewes as the whole point of doing it 3-4 weeks pre-lambing is to give them enough time to produce useful antibodies which will then go in the colostrum to protect the newborn lambs.
If your ewes have always been vaccinated and you have just forgotten this year they will still have some residual antibodies but will be much lower level than previous years and likely to be almost ineffective. You must check that all the lambs get lots of colostrum, this year more important than ever, and then vaccinate the whole lot as soon as the lambs are old enough (i.e. 3 weeks).
Remember to do the ewes at the same time as the lambs so they still get a booster this year and then prepare a reminder for next year so you can do it on time :-)

[Buttermilk]

Thanks, that is what I thought.

[Jamie12]

Sorry to hijack post but I will be vaccinating mine soon, first ewe is due 21/3/15 and four or five are due the week after, then the rest of my batch. Do I vaccinate four weeks before first ewe is due or four weeks before the big batch?

[Foobar]

Sorry to hijack post but I will be vaccinating mine soon, first ewe is due 21/3/15 and four or five are due the week after, then the rest of my batch. Do I vaccinate four weeks before first ewe is due or four weeks before the big batch?

1st on 21st  then 4 or 5 the following week, then how many in "the rest" and when are they due?  You can do HepP 4-6 weeks prior to lambing so that usually gives you enough spread to cover them all in one go, unless you have loads spread over a month.

[Welshcob]

Yeah it is as Foobar says, Heptavac P booster can be done 4-6 weeks before lambing, is not so much a problem to go a bit earlier but if you go under the 4 weeks there might be a chance the ewes haven't got time to make the antibodies. So you could do them all when the first one is 4 weeks away and then the rest will be around 5-6 weeks away from lambing. Hope it makes sense?

[pointer]

I use Covexin rather than Heptavac, does the same apply re it being worthless by the time the second injection comes round? I've kept the bottle in the fridge since giving the first dose a few weeks ago. Thanks

[Welshcob]

Hi Pointer, yes unfortunately the same apply to all and every vaccine, for any species and against any disease. After broaching, the bottle must be used within hours, some advise more some less but never more than 24 h. And always kept in the fridge before opening or on ice in-between animals. All drug companies have slightly different wording so the best is to read what the specific leaflet says.
Purified bugs and proteins degrade quickly and even if it might still retain any effectiveness after being open some time (which it really doesn't and diminishes rapidly over hours/days), the drug company would not accept any complaint/liability re. lack of efficacy or adverse reactions if pre-broached vaccine was used.

Also any off label use of veterinary medicine (including vaccines) carries a much increased milk and meat withold times. For example if vaccine X says on the datasheet of having 0 days milk/meat withold (as is the standard), that only applies if used within the Y specified hours of opening the bottle. If you use it beyond the time allowed on the datasheet, on top of everything already said about injecting fresh water, you also automatically incur in 7 days milk withold and 28 to 60 days for meat.

Drug companies may be evil in many respects but one of the few things they are good at is specify how and when to use a product to achieve best results, especially with vaccines, as hard science and evidence (which costs them money) has gone behind what they write. Other than that, it is up to you to experiment but they want no liability if disasters happen.