[Ideation]

Sounds like you have a few really good folk around you. Out of interest what ewes is the local farmer running? He may be a good person to speak to about aquiring a few ewe lambs or older ewes?

As said, as long as they are up to weight and you dont flush them (or at least not too much) you should be ok with lambing the ewe lambs. As you have said if you can do them indoors or close in if outside, that would help. One of the issues i've found, is that when they young uns have twins, they are so busy with the second, they forget the first or vice versa. . . . and that's often when foxy makes his move. Out of interest, any idea when you plan to lamb? We lamb out now so lamb around April / May. However, when we lambed inside mostly, we did so earlier, more like Feb.

Obviously if lambing out you try to get it done when the weather is better and you have more chance of lamb survival, with lambing inside, it's better to do so in the colder weather as it stops / slows down the risk / spread of disease.

If you do go and buy some older ewes, buy them off farm, see the flock, the rest of the stock and the system they are on. Take your farmer friend with you if possible, as practiced eyes will see things you may miss. But in general you are looking at "Teeth and Tits" as crude as that sounds, i.e sheep that can feed themselves and feed their young, so no mastitis etc. I also look at general condition, conformation and feet. I'd also be asking if they reared lambs this year, and if so how many, how did they do etc.

Ewe lambs are a nice clean slate and you get to grow them on with you and get used to your system and handling. As long as you watch them and pick a suitable tup to stick over them.

R.E culling - these days cull ewes and rams make pretty decent money, especially certain times of the year.

Mind you, I think we will be buying a batch of draft ewes this year off the hill. Been quoted £35 a ewe. . . . . can't really say no at that price. They will be tupped and lambed here, then they and their male offspring will go and the ewe lambs will stay I expect.

[georgielmgm]

He's currently running suffolk x mules, but about to switch to an EasyRam bred flock...it would have been 100% easier to get some lambs off him, but they're not really the sort I'm looking for, I like suffolks but they really are more 'muley' and although I know they are the most commercially viable flock but I can't be dealing with them!
Well, I know this sounds crazy, but I'd need to plan lambing around my school half-term after Christmas so probably around February, if I was lambing ewe lambs I'd definitely be bringing them in for Feb lambing, so I'd need to check with farmer friend if I could use his sheds, but I'm sure he could find space for half a dozen ewes, he's got three massive sheds so 
Definitely a good idea to ask my farmer friend to come along, hadn't thought of that, I've read up on what I'm looking for with good ewes but he may spot things that I might not due to lack of experience etc.
That sounds like a really good system to practice, reliable ewes, cheap, everything going for it, just not sure I'd really have access to that many draft ewes round here, never seem to see farmers taking old ewes to market

[Me]

If you want to use his sheds - buy his ewes. Just because if I was him I would want 6 ewes from wherever with what ever bugs and nasties they may carry in my lambing sheds like I would want the fleas of 1000 camels in my underwear. Again.

[Me]

Farmer friend would soon become farmer crazed gunman were you to introduce enzootic abortion with your dirty half-dozen for example 

[georgielmgm]

An interesting point, but he's already allowed another farmer friend to bring half (about 250 ewe) of his normally outdoor lambing flock into his sheds last Feb, before he lambed his own ewes, because the weather was so dismal, so I don't really see that he's that bothered about that, I guess it's personal choice and how worried you are about what you're bringing onto your farm

[Me]

In that case - buy a bullet proof vest and don't worry about it!  I wish I had some spare Lleyn to sell you but I need them this year!

[georgielmgm]

No worries, I'll find some! Feel like it actually might end up being a bit of a journey though, don't seem to be many flocks around me! 

[Ideation]

R.E the draft ewes that we buy, and with thought to ME's point. When we buy them, they are quarantined on land away from any of our other stock, they never come into contact. They are tupped, set stocked and left until after lambing, when they are all gathered and sorted, the ewes go off, either with some lambs at foot, or a lone, the lambs are fattened and sold as stores or in the fat ring depending on grass. Although i'm tempted to keep some of the ewe lambs back if we do it again this year, for a wee breeding programme. I also wouldnt call them reliable, or good ewes. . . . but they live on air, cost nothing to keep, are hardy as hell, and to be honest at that price, a few losses or barren ewes isn't too much of a hardship.

I'd never, ever, put those ewes anywhere near my main flock, it's just not worth the risks!

If you get the sheep you want, they are good sheep and make you happy, it doesnt matter how far they are away?

I've bought some new additions this year, both lots were about a 5.5-6 hour round trip (in different directions). But i'm very happy I made the trips as it's given me some great new blood, and i'm escited about the future lol.

I personally wouldnt lamb anything outside in Feb, experiance ewes or not. Cold and wet will kill lambs pretty quick. On the upside for you, if you manage to lamb early, you will be able to hit the early (and good) market for lambs, if you chose to sell. However, if you are intending to lamb early there are two potential issues - firstly you would need to get your sheep and tup them in the next month, and also if you bought lambs from an outdoor flock then they would be real young (and probably too light) to tup for year lambing the following year. Does that make sense? So my ewe lambs that will be tupped, will be nine months at tupping (to lamb april) whereas if I decided to lamb in feb they would only be about 5 months at tupping.

[Marches Farmer]

We got our 20 Never Again Lleyn hoggets from a local (and renowned) breeder who doesn't show but regularly makes top prices at the Society sales.  She only registers those that meet show spec., hence we took our pick of the ones with spotty ears! 

[Me]

Its the spotty eared ones see...

[Hellybee]

Great Bit of reading guys n girls. 


The lacing on ears is a breed thing, perhaps the lady only likes the tiny dots and not the spots haha x

[Hellybee]

Disasters with them...very rare.  In five year s (lambed four years, had one fallow season) of having the little beauts we ve had 2 CAesarean, 2 ringwomb, moderate multiple births, rarely trips, rare lameness, occasional daft mothering, try and get some that have lambed down, as they can be a. Bit awkward first time.
 We don't tup ewe lambs either, we let them grow on, a year.

[georgielmgm]

With regards to how far away they are, it isn't going to be my car or trailer that is towing them, and I'm not going to be the one driving, so as far away as whoever is happy to drive was my point on that one
I probably won't lamb them outside, but I don't want to say I'm not going definitely as it isn't my shed that I'd be using! So it's whether our farmer friend says it's ok, which he probably will!
I'd already thought about the problems of lambing early and I figured if I was buying from a flock that was selling as system similar to my own, I'd hopefully be buying from a flock that lambs early also, so ewe lambs would be around right weight/age? Can see your point about getting them quickly and tupping them, could be somewhat rushed/not possible! But I could also be lambing around the same time as farmer friend and I thiiink, off the top of my head that's around March time? Easter holiday time anyway...
Guess lambing ewe lambs is really personal preference and breed. Lleyns were actually used as an example in the Eblex leaflet I read (very very informative and useful by the way) which was interesting to read experiences with the breed I'm looking at 

[shep53]

Disasters with them...very rare.  In five year s (lambed four years, had one fallow season) of having the little beauts we ve had 2 CAesarean, 2 ringwomb, moderate multiple births, rarely trips, rare lameness, occasional daft mothering, try and get some that have lambed down, as they can be a. Bit awkward first time.
 We don't tup ewe lambs either, we let them grow on, a year.

  RE READ this to see if you were being tongue in cheek , sorry this really wouldn't sell the breed to me .   LLYENS are a marmite breed  love or hate , ive tried some crosses   still slightly wild   , only 25% made it to 4crop  but to be fair I think I need to buy a ram and try my own x's .        When you look at the breed their are 2 types  tall long bodied used as crossing rams on hill ewes and a more stocky type which is the ones you want ,   none of them look like the breed before it started to become rare   small and stocky .   ENJOY 

[Hellybee]

Yes, tongue in cheek is my default setting Shep