[Anke]

 So I have got two Shetland tups - one black one white.

I have 6 white ewes to go to the white boy, one white ewe will have to go to the black one as she is half-sister to white tup. However what colour ewes should I buy to breed to the black tup (he is out of a black ewe by a moorit tup). I am looking for two to three more coloured girls this autumn.

The black boy has been bred to one medium grey Gotland ewe (fairly dark grey, almost black lambs with black heads from that pairing) and to two Gotland ewes with some Texel in (I think about 25%) and these lambs are varying shades of dark grey.

I am thinking one brown (moorit) ewe at least, but don't know if grey or katmoget will just be overpowered by the black?

If the black tup is mated to the white ewe (her pedigree is white for as far back as I can see) I presume the offspring will be white?

Or do I just get a grey (katmoget), a moorit or a dark brown, and an other, and see what happens?

Oh decisions, decisions, decisions....

[Dogwalker]

no idea about the genetics but what about a fawn or something patterned.

[mowhaugh]

No idea, but look forward to hearing about the results!

[Fleecewife]

I've never got truly to grips with the finer details of Shetland colours and all the agouti, alleles, modifiers, linked genes and so on.
However, I would expect a black tup over a katmoget ewe would produce km lambs, as km is dominant over many patterns and colours - but I don't know which.  But, if the km ewe had inherited a recessive colour gene somewhere in her ancestry, then a black tup could allow her lambs to express that, so you could get something interesting there.  The same if you got a multi-coloured ewe, say yuglet, krunit, socket and bred her with the black tup - you could get almost anything, except probably white.
Your black tup over a moorit ewe would produce black or moorit lambs, as the tup will carry a moorit gene from his sire, which in other breeds is recessive to black.
Yes I agree that the black tup over very white ewe will probably produce white lambs, but you never know til it happens 
I don't know anything at all about the inheritance of grey, although I think that lambs born grey may well have a different coloured post shearing fleece.  Also, moorit lambs are born looking almost as black as the black lambs, except for a lighter ring around each eye.  They gradually lighten as the days go by.


When I put a white Shetland tup over a mid grey Gotland I had one white and one grey katmoget lamb.

The most amazing lambs were Soay from all black parents, which I had expected to produce either black or moorit lambs,  One ewe produced two sets of twins, each with one black lamb and one white with black or brown markings, like a Frisian cow - one was called Buttercup and the other Daisy.

The fun thing for me was not really knowing what to expect.  I found my fawn km ewe would produce some interesting patterns on some of her lambs, but mostly they were all km.  A later moorit tup produced some interesting coloured and patterned lambs, but he passed on a poor fleece so he was only used for a couple of years.

So maybe buy a moorit ewe, a grey or fawn km ewe and another with an interesting pattern, then stand back and see what you get  ....and of course we will want to see pics of the results 

[Anke]

Thanks for the replies - yes I think I will just get a mix and see what's happening. I have been pouring over the genetics papers, but it is all a bit confusing....

Hopefully will get down to Lanark if there are some interesting entries.

[kanisha]

Fleecewife has it about right assuming that the black tup is recessive black - there is dominant black in the shetland also which could reverse the dominance of the black v katmoget.

[Fleecewife]

Ah I didn't know that kanisha - thank you. There is a proportion of dominant black in Hebrideans too (which only has an effect on cross-bred lambs), but in Soays it is all recessive.

I have in the past understood Shetland sheep colour genetics more thoroughly, but there just isn't room in my head to keep it all there  so I've let it go (that's my story  ) Anyway, the only breeding Shetlands I have currently are white so I can let the colour genetics wash over me.  I agree Anke - it's all a bit confusing and really only worth pursuing if it's really important that you predict the colours of your lambs 

[SallyintNorth]

jaykay has it all off pat, give her a shout if you want another assessment.

I was over at hers yesterday choosing a tup lamb and ewe/ewe lambs.  My requirement : good sheep, nice fleece, to give interesting colours and more black, especially on moorit ewes.  She rattled off how each tup lamb would meet my needs - alleles and dilutes, dominant blacks and allowing expression; I understood most of what she said as she said it, then we'd move onto the next tup lamb and by the time I'd got the hang of him I'd forgotten how she said the previous one would work!

Thankfully one tup lamb shone out, his mum is a cracking ewe and his sister a lovely grey katmoget, and jaykay was keen to sell a family group so it's easier on them, so in the end my choice was an easy one.

I'll get her to remind me of their colour genetics when I collect them - and my head's stopped spinning from yesterday!  lol