[nutterly_uts]

Hi everyone
I've had a look but can't see this covered so I'm going to ask it

I have 3 collies who are raw fed. They get around 85% pre-prepared mince/bones and about 15% DIY which is more chunks and "bits". They are wormed every few months, as well having natural things like Billy No Mates and apple cider vinegar.

Does anyone raw feed who also keeps stock (mainly interested in sheep owners since my BF has lots of sheep but all answers welcome). Is it "safe" from a contamination/husbandry point of view, even with regular worming? I doubt the dogs will exercise in the same areas (none are sheep trained and I have no plans to do so) but I'm curious.

Thanks

[shygirl]

we have fed entire rams to our dogs with no problems at all. kept them lean and healthy.

we have also fed waste cuts / products from pigs, though in this case the bones were harder and wore the dogs teeth down. pig fat can also make the dogs vomit but never had this problem with sheepmeat, and feeding pigmeat also made the dogs put on weight.

we have also fed whole chickens/uncooked carcuss scraps, and deer.

(rightly or wrongly) we dont mince or anything, we just give them a hunk of leg or whatever, and if any dog cant manage to eat enough (our lhaso has a poor jawline) then they get topped up with dog meal.

the only time we have had a problem was when the labrador ate a sharp brittle old deer bone he'd found in the woods and it scratched his throat.

never had a problems with worms (though our cat has had tapeworm from hunting daily so all ours get wormed properly anyway)

hope that helps.

[ladyK]

My dog (& cats) have been fed raw for years without problems.
He wouldn't be anywhere near our sheep without supervision anyway but that's got nothing to do with what he eats.
I don't see why the type of feeding would make a difference to normal good practice and husbandry (like worming and collecting poo).

[ladyK]

Shygirl - I'm really interested in what you say here.
If it comes to it and I'll have to deal with old or very sick animals on my holding (thankfully we only had one killed chicken so far...) I would really like to think that nothing goes to waste, but I have been wondering about how to go about it with bigger animals like sheep or pigs.
When you say you have fed 'entire rams' to your dogs - do you slaughter them yourself? Or would a knacker man kill them and leave the carcass for you to feed to your dogs? Or do you get the carcasses back from the abattoir?
Thank you for sharing your experience!

[shygirl]

we had 6 hebridean tups that escaped capture so missed out on their slaughter for ages and we ended up leaving them to graze for a few years as they were no trouble. when we finally managed to get them in and loaded we sent them off to slaughter at the abattoir (who for some reason made us collect them from a butcher - red tape ) and we collected them as they were - halved lengthways.
we butchered them for the dogs but did eat a bit ourselves and they werent too strong tasting, but as we had plenty of meat at the time already, i was happy for the dogs to eat them, as they enjoyed them so much.
as we used a slaughterhouse it wasnt a cheap way to kill them but it was humane and hassle free.

they were originally going to be used for sheepskin but as bluetongue was around i wasnt allowed the skins back, so after a few years id hoped to keep their horns as they were huge - but the abattoir wouldnt let me have those either 

iv no idea about getting the knackerman to shoot them and keeping the carcuss if they are tagged etc - is that allowed? i dont know, and when i enquired about a home-killing by a licensed "hit-man" i think it was more expensive than using an abattoir.
i do know the knackerman would have shot them and let me saw the horns off but i didnt want to waste their meat either.

anyway the meat suited the dogs very well, far far better than pork.

[ladyK]

Thanks for the info, Shygirl! 
I shall investigate more myself.

[Baois Glas]

Great to see other people raw feeding!

I've recently moved to Ireland and having a hard time getting a supplier or raw, do those of you who feed raw get the majority of your food for the dogs from your own smallholding?  I would really like to be more self sufficient with their food when I can finally get some animals in.

[ladyK]

I would love to be more self sufficient with raw feeding too, but not quite there yet...
Not enough stock for a regular supply just yet.  But I thought breeding quail might be a good start as they are quite prolific and quick maturing, so there would be easily a surplus.

[Jukes Mum]

After suffering with a bed belly for a year, and trying every 'hypoallergenic' dog food going, we finally switched one of our spaniels onto raw about 2 years ago. His tummy was better within 2 days and after seeing all the other benefits, we decided to move them all onto raw. One thing with raw though is that you do need variety to cover all their nutritional needs. You wouldn't be able to feed just lamb, or just quail. We aim to get at least three different 'meats' into them each week eg fish, chicken and lamb or pheasent, beef and tripe etc. They seem to do really well on tripe in particular.

Does anyone raw feed who also keeps stock (mainly interested in sheep owners since my BF has lots of sheep but all answers welcome). Is it "safe" from a contamination/husbandry point of view, even with regular worming?

I am not sure what your concern is here- the sheep getting worms from the dogs? Usually if you are raw feeding any 'non-human' grade meat, you would freeze it for a couple of days to kill nasties. Human grade meat- no probs. They are no more likely to have worms than a dog fed dogfood.

I've recently moved to Ireland and having a hard time getting a supplier or raw

Pop down to your butchers and have a chat with them. They will either have chicken carcasses or other left overs they are happy to give you, or they can let you know which local abertoirs may be helpful. Good luck!

[SallyintNorth]

Usually if you are raw feeding any 'non-human' grade meat, you would freeze it for a couple of days to kill nasties. Human grade meat- no probs. They are no more likely to have worms than a dog fed dogfood.

Not sure that will be correct.  Dog food meat is cooked, which would kill worm eggs.  Human grade meat shouldn't have worm cysts or eggs in it, but could do - but wouldn't harm humans as it would be cooked before eating.

Eblex have a big piece on urging people to worm properly and to not feed raw meat here

Dr Siân Mitchell, veterinary parasitologist of the AHVLA, said: “Although there are a large number of products available to worm dogs, not all contain chemicals that are active against cestodes. Only praziquantel is effective against the tapeworms discussed above as well as Taenia multiceps the cause of ‘gid’ and Echinococcus granulosus (hydatid disease) a zoonotic parasite. Regular treatment of farm dogs every six weeks, or as advised by your veterinary surgeon, as well as prevention of access to carcases or raw meat, are essential in the control of these parasites.”

So if you must feed raw, worm every six weeks using Drontal, Milbemax or similar.  Note that Panacur does not contain praziquantel.  And do not leave your dog's poo on the ground.  Ever.  Anywhere.

[nutterly_uts]

Thanks everyone

Sally you've sort of answered my worries. I was concerned that the dogs might end up being inadvertant hosts for things like tapeworm or neospora despite their food being frozen before consumption.
I don't really want to go back to kibble, because the raw food is suiting them all so well, but I do wonder if you have to look at the bigger picture and greater good, and there are grain free kibbles which are a pretty good middle ground. Dog poo picking is something I am v hot on so its never left around thankfully.

Few things to think about here

[shygirl]

tapeworm can also be caught by swallowing infected fleas aswell as infected meat , so worm and de-flea.
our cat recently had tapeworm segments coming out of his rear end as he kills/eats at least 5 mice/birds daily.     humans can catch it too i think so prevention is important.
and worm the livestock too if feeding raw meat.

[Ideation]

We feed raw to our pack -

They get a mixture of pheasant, rabbit, hare, partridge, fish, venison, lamb/mutton, beef, chicken, duck etc etc a long with some eggs, veg, cod liver oil and other bits and bobs. Mostly fed as whole carcasses, often with skins, although the birds are plucked, to avoid mess in the kennels / yard.

Someone mentioned freezing food - this is good advice,  especially when feeding certain animals, such as rabbits etc. Although I worm my dogs regularly, at the rate that they eat carcasses, they would still carry a worm burden, freezing the carcass for a couple of days, kills many of the worms and other parasites.

We feed raw for a number of reasons, mainly due to the noticable improvement in the condition of the dogs and the cost (raw costs us nothing, but a good complete for seven working dogs costs a bomb!).

[Jukes Mum]

They are no more likely to have worms than a dog fed dogfood.

of course I meant if they are wormed properly!

[ladyK]

The healthier the dog the less susceptible to worms they will be.
Like any animal really.