[kanisha]

My wether greeted me this morning minus one of his horns and a bloody face.

Hes had antibiotics  spray and injectable. Fly repellant applied and the whole area clipped and cleaned but he has managed to remove what would appear to be the whole central core of the horn leaving a deep socket, at the bottom of which is a sinus which must connect somewhere to his nasal passage or mouth. i can hear him breathing through his horn and any liquid applied that trickles into the sinus makes him cough and splutter. I have covered it and bandaged things to prevent fly strike but does anyone have any long term suggestions for how to prevent the deep socket becomming a magnet for dirt and what is the hole??!!  thanks 

[jaykay]

Damn, he's done a good job hasn't he!

Here is what I found out:

He will have created a hole into the frontal sinus. Cover or plug the hole with clean gauze that is changed daily until the wound heals. Daily sprays of furacin or Topazone TM are also indicated, especially for the first week or so.

This hole will require a long time to heal shut, but eventually it will fill with bone and be covered with skin. For this reason, if dehorning, it is best done soon after the fly season is over to prevent fly maggots from appearing on the wound or in the sinus. Another reason to keep it covered is to prevent dust and hay chaff from falling into the sinus cavity and causing an infection. If the sinus does become infected, daily drainage by twisting the head so the fluid runs out the hole followed by topical antibiotic application in the form of furacin spray or mastitis treatment is indicated. Do not use any of the preparations containing Gentian violet or other pretty-colored disinfectants because they damage the living cells of the sinus musoca as much as they do the bacteria.

[kanisha]

thank you excellent explanation and yes he's done it good n proper!!

[SallyintNorth]

When cattle are dehorned at a later stage they get the same thing.  The vet always reassures us that it's fine, applies antibiotic spray and fly repellent, and isn't concerned about a bit of pus-y discharge for a few days so long as it's clearly healing.

But yes, we do them out of fly season.  I'd be at it daily (or nearly) with the fly repellent, and probably try to cover the holes with fine gauze or something, if there were flies about.

[kanisha]

thank you gauze has been applied followed by wrap around crepe banadage but will redo the fly repellant at the same time.

[SallyintNorth]

I'm not sure about the crepe - it's important to let it breathe, I think

[kanisha]

It needs something to keep the gauze in place. I'm not sure what else would work that would let it breathe?

[Fleecewife]

We had a Jacob tup lamb who did exactly the same thing.  It was spurting blood from a ruptured artery and you could see the brain pulsating.  We gripped the artery until it stopped bleeding (ages) and whipped him down to the vets.  He gave LA antiB cover and put an eyepatch over the horn.  This was wrapped on with a sticky permanent bandage which clings to itself and was a daring bright red.  I can't remember if this was changed with any frequency but it did lead to him being called 'Jimlad', but with no parrot on his shoulder.  We sent him off for slaughter at 7 months, still wearing his patch.
Obviously a huge danger is infection getting in to what is a direct route to the brain.

Just seen your post SitN - I think the permanent cover is because it's more important to prevent infection getting directly to the brain, rather than healing the wound by exposure.  vet tied the self clinging bandage fairly tightly at first to exert pressure on the wound.

[kanisha]

thanks the self clinging bandage will be vetwrap, lovely stuff  My vets suggestion was to pour dermisol cream into the socket. i haven't gone with that yet but do feel i need to try something down there  as otherwise its going to be a very unpleasant sticky mess. I don't think I can wash it out it will just pour stuff down into his nose  The socket is about an inch deep, later I though I would dremel down the horn to a much lower level but i think he hs a bit of a headache at the moment :-) I have heard of people using resin to fill the deficit or even beeswax but I don't know if either is appropriate. Honey?

[pgkevet]

I've never treated sheep but I have drilled holes into dog and cat frontal sinuses for irrigation of nasty resistant infections.. and it really isn't nice coughing and spluttering horrid tasting stuff down noses and backs of throats. Dermisol cream I also hated as it never stuck well on surfaces..on the other hand I loved dermisol liquid for irrigating cavities although again I've never shoved that down a sinus either.

One trick to avoid wrapping bandages around heads and risking neck or throat swelling choking the patient is to suture buttons around the wound and button the dressing changes on. A simple trick to place the sutures used to be to pop some monofillament nylon thread down the bore of a syringe needle, pinch a tiny fold of skin and pop the needle through...grab end of line and pull needle out backwards slipping it off the line.. add button, knot and repeat for next.

[kanisha]

Ingenious! I'm gonna love the conversation with my vet in the morning

[pgkevet]

Off topic but two quick true stories that might amuse:

Back in prehistory we used to suture buttons on dogs ears for aural haematomas. I favoured the two-hole cardigan buttons from the high street oxfam shop and sterilised well. I could get quite artistic with the colour range. On a follow-up home visit the interior designer turned up and saw patient. "Ooh-er, nice. How much to get some sown on my dog?"

Nasal aspergillosis was a huge problem to treat in dogs. So when diflucan first came out for ladies yeast problems I rang Pfizer to speak to the vet advisor about possible use in the dog. Somehow my request to talk about 'a fungal problem up my doggies nose' got routed through to the ladies help line without my knowledge and the most surreal conversation with a rep who thought I was using euphamisms before we sorted things...

(things progress. The last nasty aspergillosis case we treated we drilled, used endoscopes to pick out all the fungal plaques, scraped the lining and packed it all with canestan liquid with the exits plugged, rolled the patient around for an hour and drained. Repeat weekly for 3-4 weeks)

[fsmnutter]

We had a Jacob tup lamb who did exactly the same thing.  It was spurting blood from a ruptured artery and you could see the brain pulsating.  We gripped the artery until it stopped bleeding (ages) and whipped him down to the vets.  He gave LA antiB cover and put an eyepatch over the horn.  This was wrapped on with a sticky permanent bandage which clings to itself and was a daring bright red.  I can't remember if this was changed with any frequency but it did lead to him being called 'Jimlad', but with no parrot on his shoulder.  We sent him off for slaughter at 7 months, still wearing his patch.
Obviously a huge danger is infection getting in to what is a direct route to the brain.

Just seen your post SitN - I think the permanent cover is because it's more important to prevent infection getting directly to the brain, rather than healing the wound by exposure.  vet tied the self clinging bandage fairly tightly at first to exert pressure on the wound.

The pulsating you describe will be the membrane on the inside of the sinus, which doesn't always get opened when the horn breaks or is cut off. It often will move out and in with the breathing, as it is connected to the nose through the sinus. It is not a direct route to the brain, and as nasal passages commonly have some dirt and bugs kicking around, a hole into the sinus is not usually too serious a problem.
As advised, id keep covered to keep bits of straw etc to a minimum, keep on top of fly spray, and it will get there eventually.
all the best

[Fleecewife]

There and I've believed my vet for all these years when he said it was the brain - well, the meninges I suppose 

[kanisha]

Somehow my request to talk about 'a fungal problem up my doggies nose' got routed through to the ladies help line without my knowledge and the most surreal conversation with a rep who thought I was using euphamisms before we sorted things...

 

Well,  Gary the  wether is looking a little sorry for himself this morning but bandage still in situ. Thanks for all the input hopefully its just a matter of time.
Gary in better days