[Greenerlife]

So - I have had a little nectarine tree in my garden for about 4 years.  South facing wall, perfect spot.  Every year, bar one, it got peach curl and this year as well, except that this year the nectarines still seem to have formed.  The one year i didn't get curl, we had masses of fruit. So I need advice.  What is the treatment?  When should I do it (have done it?) will my nectarines this year survive as a result of it?  I have picked off the worst of the offending leaves so far...

[Coeur de Chene]

From mid winter to mid spring, you need some sort of protection from rainsplash spreading the disease on the developing leaves. A plastic sheet attached to the wall somehow and buried in to the soil. Pick off any infected leaves straight away and make sure you water and feed it. I believe you can spray with Bordeaux mixture if thats still legal, though I never have.

[Greenerlife]

Bordeaux mixture?  I will Google it.  Thank you

[HesterF]

Yep, Bordeaux mix is legal - I think it's just copper sulphate or something, isn't it? I sprayed this year after somebody mentioned it on here and I thought the peach tree was curl free. Actually I did notice a few leaves the other day but nothing too bad and quite a lot of fruit. I've picked off the affected leaves and disposed of them (not composted). I believe the best time to spray is just before the buds burst in spring - I sprayed February sometime - so it may be too late for now. The curl is a bacterial infection somehow carried by rain so, yes, protecting from rain is good - but I haven't tried it yet.

I don't think the actual amount of fruit at this stage would be affected by the leaf curl from this year  - the number of fruit buds will have been set at the end of last season. However, the ability of the tree to ripen that fruit will be affected by how healthy the tree is and therefore is connected to the curl.

H

[Coeur de Chene]

 I believe it's a fungal infection and that its spread around the tree by the rain rather than it bringing it in. I've always just watered the roots, as I guess any water splash would spread it at this early part of it's growing year.
I don't use bordeaux mixture because it is copper based and will probably be banned at some point for organic use. The build up of copper in the soil is harmful to worms and livestock also fish when it hits the waterways.

[pgkevet]

It is fungal and yes, copper has a toxicity potential but paradoxically is unlikely to be banned..it's the definitive grape vine spray and I belive it's use still allows vines to be called organic??

I sparyed my peach a few times..but darn it still got pretty bad curl. I think it's just the amount of rain here washing the fungicide back off.

Incidentally you should be able t use it for a measure of control of blight on spuds and botrytis on toms - things I have yet to trial.

[Coeur de Chene]

It may be banned for organic farming, they're the guidelines I follow.
An organic farmer I worked for here in France 10 years ago grew fields of potatoes and always refused to use bordeaux mixture even though it was an accepted fungicide. He is still growing potatoes and I would certainly buy those and bake them in the skin happily. But baked potatoes from another farm where bordeaux mixture had been used routinely over those same years? I consider that if the build up affects lifestock, then it affects humans too.
The best way is to protect and prevent by avoiding watersplash, feeding and watering correctly, providing healthy soil, removing and destroying infected leaves. Then sometimes it all goes wrong and you have to accept failure but, as Dr Who once said '' at least you're facing whatevers happened from the moral highground!''

[HesterF]

I'm not entirely sure how an inorganic, naturally occurring chemical would be classified under 'organic' legislation? I still don't understand how salt can be described as organic - sodium chloride, not a carbon atom in sight. Surely the point of organic in the farming sense is that it's avoiding using man-made anti-fungals, insecticides etc.? Mostly because we don't know the impact on the entire ecosystem? Copper occurs naturally in the earth and in the human body. Agreed using huge quantities of it over an entire farm might impact on the natural balance of that farm. Using a few milligrams on a single nectarine tree will neither impact the ecosystem of that garden, nor on the person consuming the nectarines, nor on any insects pollinating the flowers.

I've not used it on potatoes because I've been lucky enough, so far, to avoid blight. But I have used it on tomatoes the one year I was fast enough to spot blight early. Otherwise I have had dismal tomato crops for the last four years, entirely due to blight. I will be doing my best to spray this year - otherwise I will have to pay for tomatoes that have been transported for miles (worse for the environment) and probably grown under cover in a heated, lit environment (also acceptable under organic guidelines but far worse for the environment).

When it comes to moral highground, it's always good to consider the entire picture - just following a set of guidelines doesn't necessarily give you that highground.

H

[Coeur de Chene]

No offence intended Hester, it was just meant to be a jokey way of explaining how I personally deal with failure.

[pgkevet]

to go off topic a little more..

The term 'organic' farming has irritated me since it started. Chemically pure additives such as nitrogen sulphates for instance strike me as a darn sight healthier than a shovel-ful of human excrement.

The use of 'organic' in organic chemistry terms is equally nonsensical. To suggest that inorganic applications are safe is simply daft. Copper sulphate may be a naturally ocurring substance but then so is arsenic. For that matter so is oil and thats full of phenolic nasties. Pyrethrum as a plant extract probably wouldn't be allowed as an insecticide and certainly it's manipulated derivatives of pyrethroids (some of which actually work very well).

If you start to look at the toxicity of plants themselves there's superbly toxic stuff about - even as simple as cyanide in cherry laural.

What annoys me most is really the use of cosy words for 'spin' - a bit like calling homosexual folk 'gay' - they're people not some suddenly more cheerful subset of humanity.

So in my world you stop calling 'organic food' organic food - call it 'synthetic pesticide free' or something meaningful and honest like 'an excuse to charge more'.

I can understand folk wanting to avoid ingesting nasties.. and indeed fully support the need for environmental controls and keeping pollutants down but when i see people (like my own daughter) going on about only buying 'organic' produce and 'healthy' things and then popping panadol for headaches and walking around with a phone welded to their head and having to be seen in the right places (surrounded by exhaust fumes)...


...time to stop my rant.

[midtown]

Fully agree with your sentiments pgkevet.

Greenerlife, old wives tale says hang egg shells in a string bags from the branches and apply crushed egg shells around the soil at the base. Absolutely no scientific basis behind it - and yet it does seem to work in many cases.
Other 'cures' include the application of small amounts of sulphur to the soil - possible tie in with the use of egg shells? Also, the planting of chives in close proximity is another possible preventative.

[Greenerlife]

Fully agree with your sentiments pgkevet.

Greenerlife, old wives tale says hang egg shells in a string bags from the branches and apply crushed egg shells around the soil at the base. Absolutely no scientific basis behind it - and yet it does seem to work in many cases.
Other 'cures' include the application of small amounts of sulphur to the soil - possible tie in with the use of egg shells? Also, the planting of chives in close proximity is another possible preventative.

Wow!  That would be awesome and therefore needs doing - I have plenty of eggs!

[pgkevet]

Fully agree with your sentiments pgkevet.

Greenerlife, old wives tale says hang egg shells in a string bags from the branches and apply crushed egg shells around the soil at the base. Absolutely no scientific basis behind it - and yet it does seem to work in many cases.
Other 'cures' include the application of small amounts of sulphur to the soil - possible tie in with the use of egg shells? Also, the planting of chives in close proximity is another possible preventative.

I suppose sulphur in the soil..acidifying it - may reduce soil levels of the mould and possibly? the extra calcium and phosphates from egg shells has some benefit??

I sprinkle sulphur chips round the blueberries to boost acidity.