[mariegold]

I have just returned from the goat shed, a pitiful 100ml of milk in hand. I have been milking my recently kidded Saannen morning and evening, I leave her kid (castrated male) with her at all times. At first she would stand still and let me milk her whist she ate her breakfast/dinner, then she became difficult so my o/h build a milking stand, she was good for a while on that.... but now she is impossible!!! She kicks both her back legs up, thrashes around so I worry she will hurt herself and tries to kick my hand. We never take too much milk off of her as she is still feeding her kid, she gets plenty of high protein goat mix, oats, sugar beet, hay etc....
The woman who sold her to us described her as 'easy to handle' and 'hand milked last year'.
I know she is a lovely goat, a good mum and has lots of milk but I am at the end of my tether (no pun intended). Largely it is down to my inexperience as I am new to goat keeping but I cant help but feel that she is way beyond my ability and the stress of the situation is making us both miserable! Should I sell her on and get an easier goat? Or is there no such thing? Aaaaaahhhhhh!!!!! 

[jaykay]

Ellie did this to begin with, and she had also been successfully milked the year before by her previous keeper.

What I did was 'hobble' her. So I put her in the milking stand and then tied together her back legs (with a piece of wide satin ribbon, which was just what I had to hand). You'll be relieved to hear that she is now Mrs Calm and hops up onto the milking stand herself the minute I put food in the bucket.

I shut my kids the other side of a mesh partition, so they can see mum but not drink overnight once they're about 3 months old. And I milk in the morning. And the mums get their breakfast on the milking stand, so they're quite keen to get on it.

So, I'd persevere for now and:

1. Have a bucket on the stand so she's eating treats while you milk
2. Tie a hurdle or something onto the milking stand the far side from where you sit, so that she can't go off the   
     stand sideways
3. Tie her back legs together for now
4. Breathe, and make sure that you are calm, quiet and relaxed - any stress transmits to the goat (easier said
     than done, I know! Fake it til you make it ;-))

Also check:
1. She hasn't got low-grade mastitis or sores on her teats, and so her udder hurts
2. Your milking technique - that you are shutting the milk off and squeezing, not pulling (I use an       
      Udderly Ez hand pump which I think is easier on their teats and there's no bucket to kick over,  but plenty of folk hand milk successfully)

Whereabouts are you - is there one of us goatkeepers nearby who could come over, look what you're doing and maybe give you some tips?

[mariegold]

Hi Jaykay,

Thank you for your thorough response! Amazing!

Well I just tested her milk for mastitis using the old washing up liquid technique and it seems fine so that's a relief. I have been doing the correct milking technique but I guess as I'm worrying as I milk her I probably am trying to rush it a bit, no doubt she is picking up on my stress and its making her uneasy. I will try the back leg trick this evening, I really hope that works! She is such a beautiful goat and I really don't want to give up on her but I also don't want to cause her any long term unhappiness and wonder if she would be better suited to a more experienced goat keeper. I will persevere for now. Thanks again Jaykay for your advice

[cans]

"I have been milking my recently kidded Saannen morning and evening, I leave her kid (castrated male) with her at all times."

Is the kid taking most of the milk.  She may be kicking because there is not much left to give which is why you are getting so little at a milking. 
Mine used to get restless when 'stripping out' also very jumpy when the food ran out. Their way of saying foods gone so must be finished milking and nothing would keep them on the milking stool. (I didn't tether)
Keep calm, dont panic.  maybe just sit beside her, if you have the time, and not milk her but give her a little food, thus getting her used to being on the milking stool. 
Don't worry we all have had a goat that at sometime or other has been a pain to milk.  You are doing fine.

[Anke]

You have to persevere - just selling her on to someone else is not fair on the goat! She will need time to settle in her new environment -and of course she is trying to tell you who is boss!

Hobbling them is good, although I never had to resort to that. Also if she still has got the kid on her too it will be more difficult to get her to accept you as an additional "kid", she wants to keep her milk for her "real" kid. However if the kid is older than a couple of weeks you will by now be struggling to put him onto the bottle, but shutting him away from mum o/night could be a good compromise. I have never done it that way.

I have also a couple of goats who prefer to chew their cud while being milked, after all normally a goat would not eat whilst feeding her kids (same with ewes and lambs - they stop and chew their cud while the lambs are on).

Only milking one teat (into a jug) at a time will allow you to move the jug out of the way quickly when she kicks, so you keep more of the milk! One of my goats goes spare if some milk gets squirted onto her leg...

[mariegold]

Thanks all! Its good to know that in some ways this is normal goat behaviour...
I am considering separating her from her kid at night, he's so massive now and I'm sure he is exhausting her by jumping all over her all the time. I'll try popping him in with the other goats tonight.

She is happy to jump up on her milking stand and will let me milk her a bit, her udders have plenty of milk in them. The trouble is that she eats all her favourite bits and then starts kicking off.

When I'm not with the goats I work with children with learning difficulties and challenging behaviour so I try and use similar calming approaches. Maybe I also need to try and be a bit firmer and as Anke says tell her who's actually boss.

I don't want to be unfair to her by just selling her on and will do everything I can to try and make it work out for us (me and her that is). 

[Penninehillbilly]

I've found my goats are better being fed AFTER milking, (apart from a small treat for jumping up), tied fairly short (still enough length to move head about easily), as soon as I finish they jump off the bench and into their pen, waiting for their bowl,
Just in case of any footwaving I sometimes use a length of soft rope, doubled in half and the folded end then looped back thru to make a small loop at that end, pop nearest rear foot thru this, just 'snug', not tight, loose end goes under the back of milking bench towards me and I put my foot on that, that holds the nearest foot down. (If she does kick and tightens it, as soon as she settles loosen it slightly). If you are leaning your head into her flank as you are milking, when you feel her shift weight ready to kick just lean into her more and it will push her off balance slightly. My bench is against the wall so she can't fall off the other side
This has worked on all the goats when they're first kidded, they will test it out a bit but will end up standing there quite happily when they know the routine.
I also found they like music while I'm milking.
But I have to say, one girl does try and hold it all back for her babies, I'm lucky if I get a pint out of her, but babies are still on her full time, probably until a month old, then I'll start separating them for a few hours to start with.

[shygirl]

ahh, it does get easier once you get a relationship with them. youv had some good advice. we also use a little jug and pour it into a nearby bucket so if we get dirt in the jug or spill it, it doesnt mean the whole lot is ruined.
there are some really good vids on utube for milking.

[Lesley Silvester]

I hardly got any from Pom when she had first kidded but, as he took less, I got more. She probably is just empty but they all try it on to start with. Keep going and you'll get there.

[plumseverywhere]

Don't give up     You've described my first few milkings with Avocet (who also had both kids on her when we bought her).  I think she didnt' feel at ease with me to start with, it was new to me and her and I don't think she was happy to 'let down' her milk.   In time (a week or two) things got much better, but I had to calmly perservere and have a helper stand by to keep putting interesting titbits in her bowl if she finished her feed before i'd finished milking!   Just to give you a bit more confidence in what you are doing... it was Avocets milk that became so plentiful that I had to find something to do with it rather than waste the excess - hence our soap business was borne!!
Stick at it and as long as you are certain she has no soreness or mastitis I'd also recommend  staying firm when she kicks, ie. if you are holding a teat keep ahold even if she kicks to try get you off, they soon give up and you will know how to sensibly do this without causing trauma instinctively I'm sure.  I spent a lot of time on youtube watching clips of people milking, somehow that helped!
Oh...after Avocet died I then had the challenge of milking a maiden who'd never had anyone or thing touch her udder before!!  same technique and now we are onto 9 pints a day from her in the peak summer!!  it can be done just stay calm and self assured around them.

[mariegold]

  So following the excellent and hugely appreciated advice I have had a teeny bit of success with Blodwen and have now a whole half pint of milk! Ok it took two people a cashmere scarf for her kicking leg, a pint of local ale for dutch courage..... So fingers crossed for fresh start and much milk. Thank you all!!!

[jaykay]

Well done 

[cans]

    Well done   

[Lesley Silvester]

There you see - you can do it. It can only get better still. 


Be warned though, that you may not get so much next time if she has just been suckled.