[Ryder]

I do not have the space for regular free ranging unfortunately.  If memory serves me correctly, wheat has about 12% protein.  The only realistic, cheap way I could make up the extra required protein is to breed mealworms - which means more work.

[AndynJ]

delayed response sorry

Wheat 13%
Sprouted wheat 16-20% dependant on how long sprouting is

So its the sprouting that gets the protein back upto pellet level

Quick message as its bedtime

[Ryder]

Where did you get that figure for sprouted wheat protein, if that is true that would be awesome. But I think it goes the other way.  When you sprout anything, generally the protein content goes down but other nutrients and minerals become more easily available.  According to nutrition data sprouted wheat only has 8g of protein per 108g (so basically 8%).  http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5750/2

The cheapest options I know of of increasing protein (besides mealworm farming) is split peas (yes chickens can eat a reasonable amount of them raw without any issues) and flax/linseed.  But even with them, the overall price of feed becomes considerably more expensive than pellets.

[AndynJ]

That's what that link says try
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprouting? then No.3 Data
www.quickanddirtytips.com/health-fitness/trends-fads/sprouted-grains?


I guess we will never know, my chooks do well

Legbars close on 200 p.a
Marans 250 +
young Hybrids 400 these only receive a small amount of sprouts

Rare breeds have very orange yokes they have open freely ranging
Hybrid's have high yellow hint of orange yokes they are tempreture regulated in house along with shelter run then a netted range (controlled conditions throughout)

rare breeds get approx. 1 square meter per day per 20 hens this time of year so 4 seed trays

You can feed sprouts to horses, goats, penned sheep, cattle

[Ryder]

So I've been googling around and it does seem to be a difference of opinion with some saying there is more protein and saying there is less in sprouted wheat.

In your experience Andy, is sprouted wheat the main source of protein you are giving them?  How much free range space do your chickens get?  I'm just trying to work out if it's worth giving sprouts a shot as a major, if not the main source of protein (I could top up with split peas I guess, but I would need a lot less if the sprouted wheat really does provide the protein).

[AndynJ]

My rare breeds have 75% mixed between sprouted wheat and hard wheat, and 25% of their feed is layers, if laying slows I increase the pellets for a day or two, they have an acre to play in

My young hybrids get 30% wheat sprout 70% layers their greens are trough fed.

[chrismahon]

In this region they feed wheat and sunflower seeds approx ratio 3:1, plus whatever they grub up. The sunflower seeds boosts the protein to the required level for laying apparently. Well my neighbour's are laying well and they are in a small run. A huge amount of sunflowers are grown locally and all of them go for animal feeds.

[northfifeduckling]

I only give GM free pellets, 2 litres a day (small buckets)  shared by 25 birds, then they get wheat ad lib and free range.  Spillers are still GM free. Pellets ad lib can give them kidney issues as they are very  high in protein. 

[AndynJ]

I only give GM free pellets, 2 litres a day (small buckets)  shared by 25 birds, then they get wheat ad lib and free range.  Spillers are still GM free. Pellets ad lib can give them kidney issues as they are very  high in protein. 

Please do educate us to what is meant by "very high in protein"
Please do educate us to the direction you receive your information regarding kidney issues related to layers pellets.
"Spillers are still GM free" Please do educate us to where this information comes from (in order that I can pass this information onto the head of marketing) as in no way do Spiller uk intend to cause assumption that all their feeds are GM free, Spillers uk do try to offer a range of GM free products across the supply line in order to meet individual requirements.

Your wheat is it spelt or not, milled or unmilled, rolled or not IS IT GM FREE ? do you have a certificate ? what are the benefits of GM free above contaminated wheat ?
What is the protein level of your wheat at feed time ?
What is the protein level of the "very high level layers pellets"
What is the optimum protein requirement of your hens?
What are the implications of increased protein levels ?

I KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS
1. I am asking so that you can either educate other forum users or a debate will occur
2. To establish whether your research is relevant
3. To establish whether your post is fact or opinion

Sorry if you take offence at my response.

[northfifeduckling]

Apologies for stating that Spillers are GM free (my mistake, they used to be), this is no longer the case.
Their protein content is 17 % as it says on the label.

I have no intention to educate anyone with research, I understood the question as being asked for member's experience on this forum like it used to be the case on here. My personal experience was that my birds became egg bound when I allowed them pellets ad lib. Others explained the kidney issues on a thread discussing pellets - if I look hard enough I might find the post but I don't think that will satisfy you, AndynJ. You are obviously very knowledgeable but I don't know you and you don't know me so I'd appreciate a less aggressive tone. As you wisely apologise after you shout at me in capitals, do care to answer the questions instead yourself for all of us, if you don't mind. Always glad to learn something new.

[devonlad]

I've always been slightly bemused by the anti layers pellet brigade- we started with mash but it blew all over the place was terribly wasteful. we use compound feed simply for convenience, of use and storage. we're so busy all the time its just easy. surprised that companies who spend time and considerable resources on producing poultry feed would get it so hopelessly wrong !! not aware of it killing our hens- if anything the life they have here means they live far too long leaving us with the unpleasant  task of having to cull our girls to avoid a coop full of hens and no eggs. i'm sure there is rationale behind the reasons not to feed layers pellets but in my own experience it simply does not pose a concern

[FiB]

My concern with layers, is not chicken health ( as you say they do fine on them) it's a mixture of not trusting the corps who make them (especially after watching Hughs fish fight) and wanting to know what goes into my food.  I do believe they will put any damn thing they can get away with into them   regardless of environmental impact or exploration of people in far away places. Happy with chicken solution.... Next pigs and sheep!

[HesterF]

I'm with Devonlad. It seems ridiculous to suggest pellets suppliers will intentionally produce something that harms chickens - it's really not in their best interests commercially even if we ignore the ethics. Yes, you have to be careful to use the right pellet at the right time but you're not going to damage adult chickens by feeding them pellets.

I used to work for one of the biggest food suppliers in the world (to humans) and you hear a lot of the same propaganda about the food they produce - they'll fill it full of crap because they can get away with it. Utter rubbish - they produce the best they can for the price they pay because their profit relies on people buying the products again and you wouldn't do that if it tasted bad or made you feel ill.

Now most chicken food is not made by big corporations - in the general scheme of things they're all pretty small companies because it's a very specialised business. So it's even more important they produce something you're going to buy again. If you spend decent money, you'll get a decent product. If you spend peanuts, you'll probably get peanuts.

[AndynJ]

1. What are the benefits of GM free above contaminated wheat ?
2. What is the protein level of your wheat at feed time ?
3. What is the protein level of the "very high level layers pellets"
4. What is the optimum protein requirement of your hens?
5. What are the implications of increased protein levels ?

1.very long answer but in short it makes people feel they are getting a cleaner product, there is no substantial proof that a modified wheat is harmful to hens
2. protein levels in wheat vary from 7% - 12% ish dependant on type & production, sprouted wheat has a protein level of between 7 & 17% ish
3. 17%
4. laying hens 17%
5. too much protein as with humans is disposed of through urine, breathe & the liver excess protein isn't harmful in it's self however it could be harmful in that other minerals & vitamins maybe missing within the feed and also that some minerals & vitamins may get flushed out along with the excess protein

[AndynJ]

Apologies for stating that Spillers are GM free (my mistake, they used to be), this is no longer the case.
Their protein content is 17 % as it says on the label.

I don't know you and you don't know me so I'd appreciate a less aggressive tone. As you wisely apologise after you shout at me in capitals.

A quote from another member 
Whenever I am tempted to think I have scribed something so perfectly there is no way anyone could misinterpret it, I remind myself of this 7-word sentence and its 6 different meanings.


I never said he stole the money.

Now read it again, six times.  Each time, stress a different word.


I never said he stole the money.

I never   said he stole the money.

I never said   he stole the money.

I never said he   stole the money.

I never said he stole   the money.

I never said he stole the money.

Northfifeduckling I didn't shout