[doganjo]

Doganjo - only 3 living dual purpose champions  . Doesn't really say a lot does it?

To be fair. Maybe there could be more. Maybe it's just that those 'showing' aren't as committed to working their dogs and those 'working' aren't really interested in showing. Who knows.

And maybe if they were interested in the show world more working labs could win places in the ring. There are some working line dogs that more closely resemble the breed standard.

I was going to go into detail explaining just that - you have answered your own questions.  I don't have the time/energy/money to do both disciplines but my dogs work on a small shoot in season - that means in my view they are dual purpose, but the three that have reached the top are owned jointly by show and working owners thus the result.

I still maintain it's the working fraternity that have caused the split particularity in cockers (my first breed).  we wanted to try working ours way back in the 70s in Aberdeenshire and were told in no uncertain terms that we were not welcome - even though they proved in front of a few gamekeepers that they were good hunters and retrievers.  They just weren't interested if they were show bred.  We would have happily bred one of our bitches to a working dog in those days, but teh split is even more now than it was then - longer backs, shorter legs, shorter ears - not at all what the standard says.

And even in Brittanys, I am often asked for puppies that are from working lines - there are no such things in Brittanys - in France they are the same lines work or show, and it is here too.  The Brittany in America is totally different - shaved necks, long backs long legs, long muzzles.

[in the hills]

Agreed Doganjo  - it would be very time/ money/ energy consuming to get to a high level in both hence why most specialise.

We will have to agree to disagree about the working fraternity being responsible for the split. It's not that I'm in any way pro the one and against the other, just that I can't understand your logic.

You may not have been welcomed by some  maybe but don't think you can base the argument on that limited personal experience. My father started off showing Flatties but was very much welcomed by the working fraternity. Our first Flattie was out of Crufts Supreme Champion Ch Shargleam Blackcap so was very much a show girl!!!! The working folk didn't seem at all bothered by the fact. She was worked and ran in AV field trials. So, a different personal experience. They are just personal experiences.

My sister has 2 working cocker spaniels ..... busy bees!