[pooks]

Morning all,  probably a stupid question, but will ask any way.  i am in my second year lambing my micro flock of wilts horn sheep.  my query is i have a ewe scanned with twins ,due by raddle marks around 23rd March, but she does not seem very big, certainly compared to last year (twins again then) and she was pretty massive.  No signs of udder yet but i know that can vary ewe to ewe but does it vary year to year with the same ewe,also and  if she had twins last year and looked massive and bagged up fairly early and is scanned for twins this year and hardly looks big at all could this be normal.  This will be her second lambing.  just wondering if she has lost em somewhere along the way, although been fit and well all along as far as i can tell.  she has grass, life line bucket and is now on about 800g to 1kg of 18% ewe nuts a day (been built up over the last 5 weeks or so).  any thoughts to put my mind at rest?

[Marches Farmer]

If you've been feding her correctly she's likely to be OK.  One of my skinniest-looking Badger Face has just had cracking twins whilst one with a single is waddling around like a mobile armchair.

[pooks]

thanks for that MF, hopefully i am worrying for no reason, she looks well and although not as big as last year i'm pretty sure she is still pregnant.  two more weeks or so and i will know for sure, one way or the other.  i imagine its likely that ewes can carry the lambs in slightly different positions each pregnancy and sometimes look massive and sometimes not, just like humans!!
 
thanks for the response  i will let you know the outcome.
 
 

[kanisha]

Just a little observation for my ewes who carry singles, often I find that the size difference relates to whether they are carrying a ewe or ram lamb......  I'm not sure how variable the size difference is with your breed but just a thought.

[pooks]

Morning, thought you may be interested in the outcome, of my not so big ewe scanned with twins.  She lambed last night (bang on cue)  two very nice ram lambs.  Not too big and not too small, so just shows they dont always carry the same number of lambs and look the same sort of size each year.  one of my other ewes (scanned with a single) lambed this morning (bit of a lazy cervix that needed encouragement to fully dilate), and ewe  appeared to have given up, so intervention  needed.  but nice size ewe lamb out all well and good.

[Bramblecot]

Glad you had a nice outcome

[FiB]

Brill, happy ending!  Out of interest, how long did you let your ewe with a. Single go before you decided she had given up?  I havnt had to interven so far, but I have no real benchmark of how long a healthy labour could go on for and how much they sometimes take 'rests'.  Also in second year of lambing and so much to learn...

[devonlad]

Sure there's a more expert answer than this but we're in the middle of our 3rd year and each year we are less anxious about leaving them to it and intervene only if lamb is clearly presented wrong or ewe totally run out of steam.  Broadly speaking if toes and nose are where they should be we leave them alone.  First year we gave every one a helping hand.  This year only one so far and that was because the head was totally out with feet nowhere to be seen.  I'm sure in year4 we'll feel even less anxious

[FiB]

Mmmm. 2 years, 14 ewes and I havnt seen one being born yet    I do 2 hourly walks around the field in daylight hours and I'm sure they wait till I've gone to pop em out 

[Hellybee]

Echo Devon lad x

[SallyintNorth]

Mmmm. 2 years, 14 ewes and I havnt seen one being born yet    I do 2 hourly walks around the field in daylight hours and I'm sure they wait till I've gone to pop em out 

They do.  No kidding.

I have some rules of thumb about intervening or not.

Up until there are toes I am fairly patient.  It can be up to 4 hours after water bag before anything to see - although I probably pop a clean well-lubed finger in just to check it isn't a tail or a nose with no toes after 1 or 2 hours, or if the ewe seems distressed or looking likely to get worn out. 

Once I know I've a nose and two toes, then I just want to see steady progress. 

No progress for say 20 minutes despite ewe working hard - explore and help.  Not pull, just assist with steady pressure when she pushes.  Sometimes it's a question of just easing the flesh of the vagina around a large head - just keep working it around with your finger, gently and well-lubricated.  Some of our large commercial lambs, you need to just pull the legs forward so she can get the shoulders through.

Any serious resistance, I usually will then follow each leg up to make sure they're attached to the same pair of shoulders . 

No progress once the head and feet are out - I don't wait 20 minutes, I get straight in there with the assist.  If it's got big shoulders or big hips it could stay stuck for a while, and potentially suffer or cause harm to any lambs waiting behind - and you won't do any harm at all just easing it along as she pushes once she's got the head and toes out.  Again, sometimes straightening the legs can help the shoulders come through.

If she's scanned for triplets I want to see numbers 2 and 3 pretty quickly, especially if she's been a while getting no 1 out.  If it's twins I am a bit more relaxed about giving her time to lick and mother no 1 before getting busy with no 2.

There are times I am more hands-on - for instance, a ewe going into labour late evening when we're busy in the full throes of lambing.  Sorry but more will suffer if I don't get a good night's sleep, so I'll give her a wee while to get on with the job but if she doesn't then I will actively help.  And pull no 2 out too because I won't go to bed until I'm sure both have suckled, and it can take a good 30 minutes before they're ready to try.

We lamb mainly outdoors but if the night is likely to be wet, and anyone looks imminent, especially if it's an inexperienced ewe, then she'll get brought in.  If she's started before bedtime then she'll be lambed and the lambs suckled as above.

There may be the other odd ewe gets lambed when we're at our busiest - if for instance she has great big 'cow tits' and/or a big pendulous bag, it's likely the lambs will need some help getting latched on.  If it fits in with routine checks to see her again later then she can be left to do it on her own, but if it's a choice between lamb her and get them suckling, or hope it all works out ok, then she may well get lambed.

[ZaktheLad]

Sally - I was reading something the other day that suggested using margarine as the best lubricant for easing the skin over a large headed lamb!  Have to say I am tempted to try it out as I do find some of the lubricant gels tend to come out in a large blob and then slide straight off from where they are supposed to be!  Also, do you straighten just the one leg first to ease shoulders through rather than both together and then straighten the other leg whilst spanning the top of the neck to help ease lamb out?   

Have witnessed some horrendous treatment from male farmers who literally yank back the skin over the head of the lamb - poor ewes.

[FiB]

  .  Crossing legs, much the same as I'm sure men do at the thought of castration.

[pooks]

water bag out at about 5 ish this morning and then lots of pawing ground and a couple of laying down pushing and straining sessions. was expecting lambs within half hour to and hour but  she then just stopped doing anything at all>  so had a feel and could feel feet and nose so let her go a bit longer and  about 7 ish still nothing so had a feel to find toes with nose behind (all ok but cervix hadnt dilated properly) so a little bit of careful pressure around cervix and she softened and loosened up straight away.  Lamb was out will a little pull 2 mins later.  I had problems with her first lambing last year (took a long time to dilate) and vet told me that it could be that she just has a problem fully dilating untill you give her a little help.  She is my third ewe to lamb this year and the first two (two sets of twins each i didnt need to help, to be honest i dont want to help)  I just sit back and leave em to it and watch on cctv. 

[Marches Farmer]

I'm with Sally on this one.  Also find lambing ropes can be very useful indeed.  If I've had to go in to help the first of twins because I think the labour's gone on too long I generally make sure the first lamb is breathing and put it under her nose to lick off and go in for the other one. Often this is a mustardy colour because it's passed the meconium into the birth canal whilst waiting for the first twin to be born, so has become stressed.  She could probably deliver it herself but it would be tired by then and less likely to be up and suckling promptly.