[sss]

If you definitely do not have a queen and 100% sure about that. You could consider merging your two colonies and make one biggun?  Once the colony has built up enough you could then split it when its stronger, either requeen the 'new' colony with a bought or gifted one.  Obviously when the swarming season starts in anger you could do an artificial swarm to get your numbers back up.

I have done this with mine in the past rather than 'flog the dead horse'

[HesterF]

Yes, that's option B. But I don't know that there isn't a queen at the moment so we'd have had to shake out the entire hive over a sheet on the ground to check (and it's still well occupied) and then combine with a colony that is already filling a double brood box quite nicely so it sounds like a big exercise to me.

On the upside, my mentor has an extra colony (was his insurance policy for lost colonies and he didn't lose any this winter) that we could come to 'an arrangement' over if option A fails. So option B might not be needed!

[P6te]

Yes, that's option B. But I don't know that there isn't a queen at the moment so we'd have had to shake out the entire hive over a sheet on the ground to check (and it's still well occupied) and then combine with a colony that is already filling a double brood box quite nicely so it sounds like a big exercise to me.

You won't need to do this, if they are producing queen cells then you know they are queenless. If that is the case I would recommend uniting them and then artificially swarm them at a later stage.

[HesterF]

They've not produced the queen cells yet. I've put the eggs in in the hope they would - but I thought the point of that was so they could raise a replacement queen? I don't get why I'd try and get them to raise a new queen in order to unite them when I could just unite them straight off (and uniting still has to overcome my concerns over space in one united colony).

[P6te]

They've not produced the queen cells yet. I've put the eggs in in the hope they would - but I thought the point of that was so they could raise a replacement queen? I don't get why I'd try and get them to raise a new queen in order to unite them when I could just unite them straight off (and uniting still has to overcome my concerns over space in one united colony).

There are lots and lots of options available to you and as many members there are you will get different views as to what to do and none are necessarily wrong.  One thing you are doing in putting the frame in is to verify the presence or otherwise of a queen. If / when you positively establish the colony is queenless you can proceed in many ways. A colony that has come through winter queenless is inherently weak. The vast majority of the workers are 6 months or so old and approaching the end of their working life.  It is for this reason I suggest uniting the colonies to produce one good strong one.  From the strong colony you can readily produce 2 at the most beneficial time which can be combined with effective swarm control.

[HesterF]

OK! So I don't have to abandon all hope yet! My second colony is very strong at the moment and that's part of my concern - I just don't know where the other bees would go. I'll take it one step at a time and see what happens in the next week first - and then panic again!

[HesterF]

OK, no queen cell produced  . Under teacher advice, I've taken both brood boxes off the base, put a super directly onto it, brushed off all the frames into the super, put the queen excluder on top and a brood box (with all the brood and some stores) back on top of that. Idea is that all the bees will work their way up back to the brood leaving the queen isolated below. However, I think I would have seen the queen at some point going through all of that - and I didn't. Them am going to have to combine with another colony - either mine or my mentor's winter insurance colony that he doesn't need.

[P6te]

It sounds as if you have a failed queen and the action you have taken should assist in locating her .... unless she manages to find her way through the excluder which they do sometimes do!
Personally I'd have gone through the hive frame by frame transferring them into a new empty box being as sure as I could be that she was not present on any frame ..... but that just my way.
Let us know how you get on.
Pete

[HesterF]

Thanks Pete, I did take all of the frames out of the brood boxes so each one was checked visually for her first, then all the bees were brushed off it over the super and then I set that frame aside and moved onto the next frame. Then at the end I put all the frames with brood on and some with hefty stores into one empty brood box and the other frames (either empty or with stores) into the second brood box. I put the brood and stores back on top of the queen excluder and took the second box into another part for the garden, went through it again to remove all bees, separated out the stores frames to put in the freezer for a couple of days and the empty drawn frames stayed in the box for use whenever (some need cutting out and replacing anyway). I can't see how I'd have missed her but I'm sure stranger things have happened!

[sss]

Do not worry about missing the queen, I have at times been completely unable to spot a marked queen! Sneaky little buggers at times.

Good luck with the merging, I think that is best for you at the moment. This is why I have always told newbies that you should always plan on more than one colony. It just gives flexibility when dealing with little moments like this.