[charls]

Hiya all. We're lambing for the first time in March, and although it's super exciting, it's also a very scary prospect!! Anyway, I'm aware that the ewes need to be wormed around lambing. Would you worm beforehand, or after? They'll be lambing outside. Which wormers are you using? Now in terms of post-lambing... what vaccinations do I need to get in for the lambs and when do they need to be done? Will they need worming too? Any advice gratefully received

[Me]

Generally ewes don't need worming (do need fluking) for their own benefit, but tend to shed a lot more eggs around lambing so some farmers worm ewes nr lambing to reduce pasture contamination for the lambs sake really.
Most people go for a long acting wormer but due to resistance its surprising how short the long action can be! I think in your situation if you do it do them all at once after lambing? Up to you. Its nice if you can Heptovac P lambs when the youngest are a few weeks old (too young and it may not do a lot of good) and worm them generally with a white drench panacur type thing first time round after they have started grazing vs nematodirus (works well against these)

[Rosemary]

Have a read here and see if it helps http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/

[Hillview Farm]

Only Worm if needed. Do a FEC and worm for the exact worms they have.

regarding Heptavac, you vac the lambs when the youngest is 3 weeks plus. Any younger and I think there body can struggle as it is a live vaccine. If your ewes are on Heptavac then they will pass the cover onto the lambs for that first three weeks then you dose the lambs.

Last year as our vet charged £48 for a FEC we wormed the lambs every 21-28 days as told by a local farmer and the lambs didn't seem to have worms but we have now found a FEC that only costs £6 so we will do them instead of worming willy nilly

[Me]

Wow, bit of extreme Pharming! Yeah I would agree, FECs are great, you will get some good value added from your vet regarding likely efficacy of different wormers against what worms he finds. In general terms first off in the spring nematodirus is a common problem and can cause lambs big problems before big numbers are seen on FEC so for this reason I suggested a white drench (panacur) - but if the ground hasn't had lambies on it for a while less likely to cause trouble

[Hillview Farm]

Extreme in what way?

[Me]

Worming every three weeks regardless

[fsmnutter]

Hi there
I'm a vet in mixed practice, and can maybe offer a professional angle on this.
We do recommend worm egg counts throughout the summer to check whether the lambs need worming, but Nematodirus as mentioned can cause problems in young lambs before eggs are shed, this depends on things like the weather, and the previous year, your local vet should have an idea as to whether it is a high or low risk this year. In high risk years, we recommend a white drench through the Nematodirus risk period (again depends on weather as to exactly when this is).
Ewes and rams shouldn't need worming as often as they have a certain amount of resistance, but it is recommended to worm ewes around lambing time as they are likely to shed high numbers as the immune system is lowered around birth. Many people do this with a drench as the ewes have lambed before they go out with the lambs, or as you are catching newborn lambs in the field to check/castrate/tag, or with a longer lasting wormer just before lambing starts. Again, speak to your vet about what wormer may be best for your situation. Ewes should have poo checked for worm eggs at least once through the summer, and then again before going back to the ram, as you want them to be at full fitness, and if high, may need worming to achieve this.
Liver fluke is a different story, fluke egg checks cannot be done using regular equipment and tests, so the vets often have to send samples away, which is why checks are often more expensive. If you are in a high risk area/farm for fluke, it is recommended to treat all your sheep for fluke at certain times of year, depending what flukicide you are using, your vet should be able to advise you on this for your local area.
Resistance to wormers is becoming a big problem, so keeping worming to when it is necessary, and the lowest class of wormer that works for you (if the earliest wormers don't have resistance, the advice is to keep using them, then you have all the other kinds to move onto if there is resistance developing!). Also, if you have some stronger ewes, that have single lambs, it can be worth leaving one or two unwormed, to allow some worms onto the pasture that are not resistant, and so keep the resistant worms from multiplying.
SCOPS - sustainable control of parasites in sheep - is a very useful protocol for seeing how best to minimise resistance on your farm, and if you google it, you can see all their advice.
In terms of vaccination, if the ewes are vaccinated against clostridial diseases, then as long as they have had a booster 4-6 weeks before lambing, the lambs will have some immunity passed to them through the placenta and colostrum. As mentioned, the lambs themselves will need vaccinating twice, 4 weeks apart, from 3 weeks old, in order to stimulate their own immune system. Clostridial diseases can cause lambs to struggle to thrive, or even drop dead, so they are well worth protecting against.
Good luck with your lambing, and if in doubt, give the vet a call, they can always talk you through problems or any other questions on the phone!

[Marches Farmer]

I think that's going to be the definitive answer on the subject for some time!

If your land hasn't had sheep on it for some time and you use Zolvix or Startect and yard new sheep for 48 hours before putting them onto grass the worm burden should be virtually non-existent.  The exception would be fluke, which is also carried by wild animals. 

We try to switch turn-out fields (which we close up in September so the ewes go out onto grass that's grown slowly through the Winter, to avoid grass staggers.)  The lambs then go onto semi-clean pasture, but it may not be possible on some holdings.

[charls]

Wow, thanks for the informed, brilliant advice everyone! Yes our ewes are in a Heptavac program, and we definitely plan on Heptavacing the lambs too, when they're old enough. The worm info is particularly useful. We've never wormed ours before and were aware of FEC (just discovered the cheap way of doing it is DIY online!!). Because lambing is imminent I wanted to make sure the ewes were wormed with something, as this seemed to be what is recommended and also what Tim Tyne's book say. But yes, I know about resistance and the problems associated with this. Worming is the main area I struggle with, I just can't get my head around it. Oh and fluke - turns out it is a problem in my area with neighbour's sheep affected, so fluked the ewes with Fasinex a month ago. Don't want to go overboard with this, esp as the withdrawal period is very long. How many times a year do you fluke drench? I get the impression it should be done Sept/Jan/Apr...

[shep53]

.

regarding Heptavac, you vac the lambs when the youngest is 3 weeks plus. Any younger and I think there body can struggle as it is a live vaccine. If your ewes are on Heptavac then they will pass the cover onto the lambs for that first three weeks then you dose the lambs.

                                                                                                                                                                        Not live  DEAD      FORMALIN KILLED CELLS                                                                                                       Fluke is a very complicated subject , just because your neighbour has a problem doesn't mean you have , if your field are dry with water troughs not natural supply, no open ditches then you may have no fluke , since you say you only fluked last month and all sheep looked fine then maybe no fluke .   I have fluke on some fields and so  some sheep have had 3  some 4 treatments since the summer , two different products ,  as soon as they go back to the field they will pick up new fluke .  Your vet can do blood tests to look for fluke damage .                           

                                                                                                                                                                       We are a shooting estate and strangely  the red  and roe deer livers are always perfect ,  and when the Tamworths ran on the hill we never had a liver damaged

[Me]

fsmnutter your fingers must be bleeding after that one!

[Hillview Farm]

Just out of interest If it's dead why do they say it's a live vaccine and must be used within 8-10 hours?

[Me]

For added drama

[fsmnutter]

It is a killed vaccine, which is why the two doses are required to fully stimulate the immune system.
The reason lambs/kids can't be vaccinated until 3 weeks old is that there are usually some antibodies passed to the babies from the mother, in utero and through colostrum, which interfere with the body's ability to react to the vaccine, meaning that the vaccination won't stimulate immunity in the young animal until these antibodies have started to wear off, around the 3 week mark.
The reason these vaccines need to be used within a short time frame is that oxygen can affect the vaccine, making it less able to stimulate the immune system as fully, so the animals may be less protected, or the vaccine wear off sooner than the 12 months it would usually last. Opening a bottle can also allow the possibility of bacteria getting into the vaccine, which would also make the vaccine less effective, and potentially introduce infection into the vaccine site.
Many experienced vets suggest that using a sterile needle to draw off only what you require, sealing the rest of the bottle securely and storing in the fridge will allow the remainder to be held effectively for the 4 weeks required til the second injection, but as the manufacturers have only tested the efficacy with the vaccine used up to 10 hours after first piercing the bottle, you do this at your own risk, and the manufacturers can not be held responsible for anything that gets infected if the vaccine hasn't been used according to their instructions.
Hope that clears it up a little?
Suzanne