[ScotsGirl]

We have a very small flock of pedigree suffolks and are concerned about their condition as very lean. I would score them about 1 or 2 but having said that they are very lively and always keen to eat. I have them in with my commercial ewes and ram who is also very thin.  They get about half a bale of hay a day and a scoop of nuts between them. Ram gets about half lamb feed to himself (well almost as ewes come and help him!). Due to lamb suffolks in about 3 weeks and rest March.


The new suffolks bought in autumn are ok it's just our original ones that are thin so we think it is something we are not giving them. They have been wormed and my only option now is to worm count and check that's ok. 


The commercials get identical care and are scoring 3/4. Lick is always available.  Our two Suffolk ewe lambs are also poor in comparison to the crosses. Again they go for the nuts before hay. We are taking the rams out today so they will get fed up.


Any ideas? Is this just a pedigree issue?

[MarvinH]

Is there any hay left from the previous day or has it all gone?

[JulieWall]

Are they elderly? Have you any photos?

[SteveHants]

CS 2 is just about fine for a sheep over the winter - I try not to let mine get over 3, you are asking for problems if you do, IMO.

[langfauld easycare]

  have they been done for fluke ? 1 or 2 is lean for suffolks .i would be worried about milk production but putting extra feed in now would just go straight into the lambs   

[SallyintNorth]

I was about to ask could they be flukey too.

Also, you don't say how many there are and what there is for them to go at besides the hay - by which I mean grass.  We'd feed commercials on poor/nonexistant grazing hay at the rate of 1 bale per 20 sheep per day, or more if they were not doing well and were cleaning up.  If they've got grass then half that much hay.

Sheep need a lot of sugar in the 6-8 weeks before lambing; if not feeding cake at 1lb/head or thereabouts for a commercial type, I'd certainly have a lick out for them - and one that has a high energy content, not just mins and vits.  Big sheep growing big twin lambs inside can simply not have enough room to take in enough hay or other forage to glean their dietary requirements in a 24 our period, hence the normal regime of feeding cake in the last 8 weeks of pregnancy, for a mule usually 1/2 to 3/4 lb per head per day from 8 weeks, doubling that in the last 4 weeks.  A little less for Texels as there is always a concern about over-large lambs - but if you don't feed twin-bearers enough then they can be short of milk for two.

I have no experience of lambing Suffolks so I don't know how much cake and forage that breed specifically would need, it could be more than I've outlined for our commercials (Texels and Charollais types.)

Other possibilities include minerals/trace elements.  Texels need little or no additional copper, but other breeds may need a copper supplement.  Also different breeds will need more or less supplementation of vitamins and other elements (cobalt, selenium, etc.) 

[SallyintNorth]

i would be worried about milk production but putting extra feed in now would just go straight into the lambs

I agree I would be worried about milk production.  And whilst it is true that extra feed would go into the lambs, the problem is that if they aren't getting enough then they will be depleting their internal resources in order to feed the lambs, giving a risk of twin lamb disease / pregnancy toxaemia etc.  So I'd be feeding twin-bearers for sure.

[langfauld easycare]

my money would be on fluke if the ones bought in at the back end are fine but the originals and ewe lambs are not . i am assuming the ewe lambs are not in lamb so it cant be the fetus taking it out of them . they have a lick so should be ok for mineral .
i would do them all for fluke and split out all the lean ones feed them as sally described before ,even up to a kilo a day per head(split in 2 feeds) for big pure suffolks .
they can be hard going though end up with lambs like calves
 

[shep53]

Since you say only the suffolks are lean on the same feeding then you need to get the vet to take bloods they may be very low in some mins  and may be unsuitable for your land .  In the short term you need to get quality feed into them

[shep53]

CS 2 is just about fine for a sheep over the winter - I try not to let mine get over 3, you are asking for problems if you do, IMO.

    SORRY OFF POST SLIGHTLY , every sheep is an individual some are always lean and some always fat .  Sheep breeds are also very different, the down breeds  suffolks , southdowns , dorset , Hampshire  and the meat breeds charolais  texel etc have been bred to  carry condition and fatten easily  .   The maternal breeds  Leicester crosses   zwartables  etc are leaner and not bred to fatten quickly  .   The primatives   soay  castle milk  etc are mostly untouched  by mans " improvement " and can cope with being lean  .     The land/climate can also affect the sheep and its said you must find sheep to suit your land /climate .              MY  texel x's and  northie cheviots   will rarely be less than cs 3    my  maternal type crosses will be more cs 2.5      the  cheviots on the hill same genetics will ave  cs 2 +      all sheep are bred on the farm as any bought in sheep have a shorter life  finding it difficult to adapt      over 2 mts  rain in a good year  , poor grass, ticks,midges , fluke 

[Marches Farmer]

Just read the National Sheep Association's weekly newsletter and they reckon that although grazing lasted a lot longer through the good Autumn weather it was so poor after 2012's lambing that ewes still went into tupping in poor condition.  That said, I'd be inclined to suspect fluke most of all.  Whatever it is you need to get it identified and treated fast.  Suffolks are half Southdown half Norfolk Horn and those in poor condition are, as has been mentioned, very likely to suffer from twin lamb disease, weakly lambs and poor milk production.

[ScotsGirl]

The two adult suffolks are 3 I think. We bought the ram and two ewes in lamb. The ewe I sold (related to ram, shafted!) was a different build and bloodline. We sold her with the ram lamb from current thin ewe as different bloodline. He was a cracker and I put him with 2 ewes who had cracking lambs this year.


Their condition was similar to our new ones but has deteriorated over last year. The ewe went back to the ram every month and I have no idea if she is pregnant. They have both been done with rycoben  at fluke dose. The ram last year was fec'd and re-wormed but then clear.


I will have to phone vet I think. They have Scats sheep lick bucket and will get a Lifeline next weekend when back in stock. I tend to trickle feed and up it in last few weeks but try not to over feed as lambs are usually big from all breeds. They don't have much grass and clear all the hay bar a tiny bit that has been trampled.

[SallyintNorth]

Not sure when it was you used the rycoben, but NOAH says

care should be taken not to exceed the recommended worm dose especially during the first month of pregnancy. Ewes should not be treated at the fluke and worm dose during tupping and until one month after the tups are removed.

Also, it is effective only against adult fluke, so you would need at least two treatments, preferably 3, at 5-8 weeks intervals to clear them of fluke completely.

It is a broad spectrum wormer but does not cover the entire gamut of possibilities.  For instance, it doesn't cover haemonchus at all.

There could also be a lot in what MF says, in that after the atrocious long wet summer of 2012 and following long wet winter, although we had a better summer this year the ground needs more time to recover fully, hence there has not been the goodness in the grass in some areas as you would expect.  I've noticed it with my Jerseys - hardly any cream unless I feed a lot of cake on top of the grass, whereas other years I get nearly 30% cream off grass in July.

[ScotsGirl]

Just to clarify I wormed pre-tupping and only did the ewe again during tupping when she kept returning and in case it was an issue. She lost a lot of condition last winter towards the end of pregnancy and never recovered despite daily handfuls of feed through the summer. She doesn't look poorly.


I will ask vet for recommendation and possibly do another fec on those two.

[Marches Farmer]

Our ewes aren't where I'd like them to be condition-wise this year.  We culled several after weaning that would have certainly gone another year under normal weather conditions but their last lambing and lactation took so much out of them they were never going to get back to where they should be in time for tupping.