Author Topic: breeding question (Read 3951 times)

lord flynn · « **on:** January 08, 2014, 05:29:35 pm »

I know people breed for different reasons and I am new to it all myself (chickens for 5 years), so this is a investigative post rather than a snarky one!

Having picked the brains of several old poultry men, I was told by all of them to not breed from pullets-or not ones less than 12 months old at a push and not to hatch large fowl too late in the year. Breeding from young pullets means diminishing returns wrt small chicks from small eggs and if you're breeding for egg production, by rights you should breed after a complete season (including the winter) so you breed from the best layers.

I've bred from 12 month old pullets and hatched end of June, which I considered pushing it. I couldn't be doing with chicks/growers in the winter anyway, running lights etc I prefer them out at 3/4 weeks if possible. This year I am only breeding from hens that are after their first/second moult and I know the laying capabilities of all of them and everything will be finished hatching by end of May (partly because I had a period of no eggs while they all went through the moult lol so want some POL before xmas next year). the 2013 pullets will not be bred from until 2015.

Does this matter with the hybrids do you think? I won't get hybrids again, I find them not particularly hardy and fairly unreliable after their first moult, the purebreeds lay less maybe but seem very tough and lay better in their 2nd and 3rd years.

Victorian Farmer · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2014, 06:24:52 pm »

You are right not to breed pullits onley becouse there will be more cocks than hens not size.Secondley all the pens will be full with chicks by the end of januarey .March its all over all cocks sold or put with a fuew hens.We don't bother till November New pullits left 12 months before 2 cock birds used.The cock bird is half the flok the most important.I would breed 40 and the best 4 kept iv got some of the best road line as well as bared rock Amrock Sussex last yares breeding was silver lace wyndots they will make cinaman queen out standing sex link cross. The stock has a 5 year life then sold.I have hens 10 year old and still lay.Iv been at this 25 years and spend a lot of time soucing onley the best stock the bared rock came from Dr clive carfut who won meney club shows I bought a cock bird 4 year old and its took 6 seasons to get the utilatey line in them .The road line is 1952 shaws utilatey line.So the best 3 hens and hatch from them none of these will be sold .The numbers is about 300 to 320 eggs which is good. The more you put in the more you will get out of them I also have roads on the queens estate

Castle Farm · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2014, 10:37:59 pm »

In their pullet year you need to establish their laying pattern, size and colour of the eggs and of course numbers. Liveability and vitality and when they moulted.
All this needs to be done in the process of selection for the breeding pen in their first adult laying season.

Most breeders just breed from what they have and in the process churn out birds no better and sometimes worse than the birds they are using. These are not really breeders of poultry but producers of sub-standard birds that flood the marketplace.
Just because a bird lays the most eggs doesn't mean she is the best bird to breed from, there is a hellova lot more to breeding quality birds than that.

chrismahon · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2014, 06:23:39 am »

Breeding late in the year means high heating costs for the chicks over Winter Lord Flynn. We did it in the Dordogne to replace a bird killed on arrival and its not something I would wish to repeat.

Pullet eggs are too small and produce weaker chicks. That weakens the breed. We only breed from two year olds and above which takes out the random sudden deaths and other genetic weaknesses. The eggs are larger and the hens stronger then. We ensure the diet is perfect - a mix of layers and rearers pellets with plenty of fresh fruit and veg which includes the cock. Pointed or misshapen eggs are avoided. The big hatch we had of Wyandottes and Orpingtons saw 42 strong chicks hatch and all reached maturity. We avoided ACS chick crumb as that inhibits growth and kept them inside until 8 weeks.

Stereo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 09, 2014, 08:51:05 am »

We did a late hatch last year and regretted it. We had 4 broodies so bought some eggs for them. It was nice while they were raising them but at five weeks they cleared off and left us with the chicks. It was too cold and they have grown really slowly. They are 18 weeks now and the pullets are nowhere near POL, the cockerels nowhere near ready for the pot. I wouldn't do it again.

We also got 15 males to 5 females although that maybe just coincidence.

lord flynn · « **Reply #5 on:** January 09, 2014, 09:32:18 am »

really good to hear what you all do. I struggled to get stock, hence breeding from the year olds and only chose the ones that laid the best eggs most consistently. Unfortunately at the time, the Scots Grey who was the best layer, is also not the best example of a Scots Grey so I havent used her but she earns her keep.

I don't use ACS crumb-the first year I used Garvo and have to admit, last year I used bog standard crumb and saw no difference but am interested to learn more about diet for breeding and rearing?

I lost a chick to wry neck the first year, she wasn't one I bred but was from one I hatched and I think the eggs were too small although I bought them in good faith. I lost one SG pullet to prolapse last spring and thats it.

Victorian Farmer · « **Reply #6 on:** January 09, 2014, 12:21:51 pm »

I have a block 20 ft by 20 ft shed on that I have the pavilion with a double do ore that is 28 foot by 10 .When I built the roofs I put half inch thick ply i then lay thick felt on top then a tarpaulin then 12 gage metal roof it will stand minus 5 with the water not freezing .Then I built the wood burning stoves its a 6 inch pipe on to a 8 inch double that ticking over makes the pen 60 degrees as it gets colder just open it up .With the lambing in late March I have no time for the incubate rs and chicks .If a job comes up like wheel barrings I can do it in the warm ENE time.Iv also made the open barn which is massive and can take 200 ewes.Again a settie and wood burning stove just to make it better.So cold is no problem just loading the fires 3 or 4 times a day . The nursery contains 5 sheds next to the house just for the hens .

Mathew_J · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2014, 01:17:59 pm »

It never fails to amaze me the number of so called 'breeders' that hatch eggs from pullets. I consider myself a newby to poultry too (5 years PLUS experience), but speak to anyone that knows their stuff and this is an absolute no no.

lord flynn · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2014, 02:05:09 pm »

VF-that is some set up! I will be pleased when I get my 10 x 8 shed

and of course, if you have lambing to deal with, it makes sense to get it out of the way early. My life is generally getting a bit easier in March/April.

its been an eye opener just how much better my hens look in their second year onwards tbh, really looking forward to the hatches this year. Both the aruacana and the SGs are looking good now they've come through the moult, as do the Marsh Daisies-just a shame I couldn't get a brown MD cock anywhere as one of my MD hens is pretty good.

I've seen poultry advertised though, (not here) thats just POL in August and being bred from.

Victorian Farmer · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2014, 05:24:25 pm »

I'm realey not a crofta nor a farmer I just like to build good stuff pens fires eney think wood or metal .Iv got a saw mill local that I can cut timber to eney size .Metal a welda that can cut a hole in a 15 mill plate. The tip has some fantastic metal like the plate in the back of the cooker .To day can you cut some big stanshion and haw much....Can I have them yes free there must be 8 ton best steel and plates.So animals metal wood nothink better .Lord Flynn you should say whot cock bird you won't next week its the scotish natshnal so lots of top breeders etc its a buzz you get new life.

Stereo · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2014, 06:52:55 pm »

One thing I have learned this year is that its so important to plan pens and housing properly. Know where each bird is going to be at every stage of it's life. We did a big hatch this year and it caught us out to be honest. Next year I'm considering salatin style chicken tractors for the 5-18 week bit. Probably ending with 10 birds in each by the time they are killed / go to the main pen / sold. I figure on something where the roosts are over the grass and it's moved every day to fresh grass so no real cleaning out or buying bedding.